My ongoing therapy dilemma

[gooblax]

Oh okay. I thought you were talking about one in your teens.

I've already expressed my opinion about him. I would have fired him a long time ago.

I don't fault you at all for being upset with him. I wouldn't tolerate even "friends" who behaved that casually about my feelings, let alone someone I was paying to help me.

Yeah. My 2007 therapist and school counselor made some mistakes but I didn't experience them as being so painful as these ones. I never really liked them though, whereas I like/d current therapist for some bizarre reason. Maybe I'm trying to resolve some thing where it's like "if I can make him understand/care then it will be ok" or whatever. I dunno.
So I can bring the stuff up next session, but I don't know what I want out of doing that.

Also, David Burns believes many therapists fall short:

Interesting, thanks.

 

[Daniel E.]

Yeah. My 2007 therapist and school counselor made some mistakes but I didn't experience them as being so painful as these ones. I never really liked them though, whereas I like/d current therapist for some bizarre reason.

I have liked all of my therapists and psychiatrists in varying degrees, though I never developed a strong attachment except to my first psychiatrist. My first and favorite psychiatrist actually broke the record for having the most Medicare fraud for a mental health professional (after I moved away and concerning a dementia facility), and he is still in federal prison. So you never really know all the sides of some people, but he was actually the nicest psychiatrist I ever had -- would see me the same day, would take Medicaid even though he could afford not to, would always call me back the same day, etc.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I "fired" a psychiatrist once.

I had an issue I really needed some help with and told him what it was. He said no, we weren't going to talk about that, we were going to talk about a different issue.

Honestly, I was utterly stunned. I think I just stared at him in disbelief for a few moments; it seemed like a long time but I don't really know and while I was doing that he just stared back at me. No explanation. Nothing. It was like a father scolding his son and saying no we're going to do it my way (something my own father was prone to do although the psychiatrist didn't know that).

I don't even remember the rest of that encounter. I don't remember whether I stayed for the session or just got up and left. All I know is I never went back. I got a new referral and when I told the new guy what had happened he too was surprised. And he gave me excellent advice on the new issue that was troubling me.

 

[gooblax]

I have liked all of my therapists and psychiatrists in varying degrees, though I never developed a strong attachment except to my first psychiatrist. My first and favorite psychiatrist actually broke the record for having the most Medicare fraud for a mental health professional (after I moved away and concerning a dementia facility), and he is still in federal prison. So you never really know all the sides of some people, but he was actually the nicest psychiatrist I ever had -- would see me the same day, would take Medicaid even though he could afford not to, would always call me back the same day, etc.

Glad to hear that your first psychiatrist was good. Wow about the medicare fraud though. It sounds like that could have been a slippery slope set of bad decisions but who knows.

I "fired" a psychiatrist once.

I had an issue I really needed some help with and told him what it was. He said no, we weren't going to talk about that, we were going to talk about a different issue.

Honestly, I was utterly stunned. I think I just stared at him in disbelief for a few moments; it seemed like a long time but I don't really know and while I was doing that he just stared back at me. No explanation. Nothing. It was like a father scolding his son and saying no we're going to do it my way (something my own father was prone to do although the psychiatrist didn't know that).

I don't even remember the rest of that encounter. I don't remember whether I stayed for the session or just got up and left. All I know is I never went back. I got a new referral and when I told the new guy what had happened he too was surprised. And he gave me excellent advice on the new issue that was troubling me.

Yikes. I think you mentioned that once before (I'd forgotten until reading the post) but it's preposterous that he'd just randomly refuse to discuss it. Have to wonder what (or if) he was thinking. :facepalm:

____
I think I know what I want out of bringing it up with my therapist all these years later:
- To clearly identify where some emotional landmines are, to make it less likely that he'll blunder straight into them now and to make it easier to explain why I might will do react extra-badly to a blunder (or even ambiguity) now given the history of it.
- For us both to have a common understanding of what didn't work in our previous communication and why, so we can keep finding different things that might work better.
- To discuss it as something that's affecting me as a therapy side-effect (then and apparently still now), affects the way I communicate with him, and affects the expectations I have around how he might respond.
- Best case, an acknowledgement that he recognises that those things were unhelpful back then and an admission that he didn't know how to be helpful at the time due to the way that I communicated.

Now to just stew in that for 4.5 weeks. :sigh:

 

[gooblax]

Last night I was asking myself what I would do differently in therapy sessions in 2008 if I was still the same person but having the knowledge I have now. I don't think I could have done a lot of what could have been useful. The way my thoughts were operating just wouldn't have allowed it. What I could probably have done is:
- told my therapist that his questions were confusing, that I didn't want to focus on anxiety, that I didn't think I had anxiety
- tried sitting on the floor facing away from him since I was wondering if that would be more comfortable at the time
- brought in a ball and ask if he'd just toss it back and forth with me for a bit so I could get used to the idea that it didn't have to be quite so weird/intense with the talking thing
- never seen him in the first place which is something I seem to frequently find myself wishing I'd done

I wish I could just quit now without the idea being so upsetting.

 

[Daniel E.]

I wish I could just quit now without the idea being so upsetting.

Reminds me of different things:

"better the devil you know"

"yeah, but..." syndrome, which I think everyone has for some things

More positively:

"The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek."

~ Joseph Campbell

 

[Daniel E.]

As I may have mentioned before, one of my favorite articles:

Good Riddance?

 

[gooblax]

2.5 weeks til next session feels impossibly long at this point. :facepalm:

 

[gooblax]

I was thinking that I should come up with some new therapy goals or at least see what ones from last year are still relevant. But I'm a bit stuck, because my biggest problem has morphed from "constantly trying to block out uncomfortable feelings and not concentrating on useful things because they don't effectively block the feelings out" to "thinking about my therapist too much because apparently my brain thinks that might be a good way to block uncomfortable feelings, but it's not a good way at all and brings more uncomfortable feelings along for the ride".
And I don't know if there's any way to correct that.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I'm sure there is a way to correct it but I may have to think about it for a while

Do you know what the uncomfortable feelings are behind this, i.e., the ones you are trying to block?

The problem with trying to block feelings is of course like the old example of trying not to think of an elephant.

 

[Daniel E.]

I'm a big fan of Michael Eigen because he does such a good job at articulating the double-edged swords of being human.

Something with a similar, psychodynamic feel:

We want to be ourselves and we want nothing more than to flee from ourselves. The natural escape is to identify only with the desires we approve of at any given moment, and to forget the ones that shame or horrify us. This way our self-image can maintain a modicum of plausibility to itself. But our conflicting desires remain more permanent than our fleeting succession of identities that we fashion and discard as they become unbearable, even to us.

The Therapy of Desire: Toward a Revolutionary Philosophy - Los Angeles Review of Books

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Sometimes it's not thoughts that shame or horrify us but more thoughts that create a lot of anxiety.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

@gooblax see Quotes on Therapy - Page 16

 

[gooblax]

Do you know what the uncomfortable feelings are behind this, i.e., the ones you are trying to block?

The problem with trying to block feelings is of course like the old example of trying not to think of an elephant.

I'm not really sure. The first level is typically some form of restlessness/boredom (so can be temporarily relieved by getting into a state of flow with something)... But say on the weekend when I have time to do anything I want to do, I'll play a mindless game (bubble shooter, solitaire or similar) rather than a much better game which would usually be significantly more fun/engaging... Presumably because I'm trying to numb out/block something, cause the only benefit I see from that is not having to think or expend any effort whatsoever.

It could be some form of "whatever I do won't be good enough so why do anything" but I'm not sure.

I can try to tackle it behaviourally but it hasn't been effective so far (e.g. schedule time for activities which I haven't been doing even if they're ones that would normally be good... I've still been picking the mindless block-out games. Or watching psychology podcasts on YouTube, or reading mental health related blogs or forum posts without participating... Total waste of time at this point when I'm not doing anything useful with it.)

Similarly I was talking to my bf on skype and before I knew it I'd zoned out and started doing a 'code breaker' (looks like a crossword but has numbers in the squares and you have to figure out what letter matches each number... And the ones I've got are extremely easy so there's fairly little thinking involved) while he was talking about a show he'd watched.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I was thinking more about identifying and confronting the feelings you're trying to block, rather than looking for other ways to avoid that.

For example, the description of your recent interaction with your bf: You have mentioned some significant ambivalence about that relationship and yet you remain in it. Perhaps the zoning out when talking to him is a result of not wanting to think about why you maintain the relationship despite having little optimism that it is healthy or practical/workable for you?

 

[gooblax]

I'm a big fan of Michael Eigen because he does such a good job at articulating the double-edged swords of being human.

Something with a similar, psychodynamic feel:

Both that quote and the Michael Eigen one on pg 16 of quotable quotes are going over my head at the moment. It seems like I need something more practical rather than acknowledgement of the need to tolerate endless, yet variable, malaise.

 

[gooblax]

I was thinking more about identifying and confronting the feelings you're trying to block, rather than looking for other ways to avoid that.

Yeah I guess that would make sense. I'm just really not sure how to identify them. I could try a "5 why's" tree or something but may end up in a self-critical pit.

For example, the description of your recent interaction with your bf: You have mentioned some significant ambivalence about that relationship and yet you remain in it. Perhaps the zoning out when talking to him is a result of not wanting to think about why you maintain the relationship despite having little optimism that it is healthy or practical/workable for you?

Maybe. And the show he was talking about didn't interest me I zone out the same way when my parents are talking about something that I'm not interested in. Like "I'd rather not spend my time in this conversation" but then my alternate activity usually isn't that interesting either.
Now if I could find it within myself to try being curious and engage properly in the conversation things might go a bit better...

 

[Daniel E.]

One thing Eigen does pro-actively is to encourage people to identity and (rid themselves of) sources of "toxic nourishment." It's the old story of coping mechanisms becoming more problematic than the original problem. The end result can be what he calls "psychic deadness," a.k.a. depression, numbness, loss of vitality, living on auto pilot.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Maybe. And the show he was talking about didn't interest me I zone out the same way when my parents are talking about something that I'm not interested in. Like "I'd rather not spend my time in this conversation" but then my alternate activity usually isn't that interesting either.

Now if I could find it within myself to try being curious and engage properly in the conversation things might go a bit better...

Or perhaps a better strategy is to change the topic of conversation to something that does interest you? Are you obligated to remain in a conversation that bores you?

 

[gooblax]

I don't actually know how to have interesting conversations. That actually did have a slot in my 2019 therapy goals.

Most of my conversations are about tolerating whatever the other person wants to talk about. Sometimes it ends up being somewhat enjoyable but that's harder if its 1:1.