Thought of Self Harm and Suicide

[suewatters1]

In topics where there is mentioned that suicidal people think that families and friends are better off without them. I disagree with that statement.
I read it on this forum what suicidal people think in articles that are posted.
I wanted to say I disagree with that statement. I know lots people care about me.

Sue
Please if I said anything that inappropriate please delete it so I don't get into more trouble.

---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------

Daniel the pain I feel is from me having CIDP and the fact I injured my back and left elbow last fall and it hasn't healed yet.
Sue

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------

I also want to say there are so many kind an caring people on this forum.

Thanks

 

[Daniel E.]

A small pilot study that says that meditation/MBSR can help with the pain of peripheral neuropathy:

http://www.mscare.org/cmsc/images/journal/pdf/IJMSC_Winter_11_final_effects-of-meditation.pdf

And certainly back pain is one of the most common pains people have, with mindfulness and CBT being helpful for coping with any type of chronic pain.

 

[suewatters1]

I have a question I want to ask if it is appropriate. Many people attempt to commit suicide but many do not succeed. So what does a person do or say to their family and friends after a failed attempt? I would feel so bad so much worse for not succeeding.
If this question is inappropriate please remove it. I simply ask because if I ever try and I don't succeed then I would want to know how to handles things after a failed attempt.

Sue

 

[Daniel E.]

It is unfortunate that the term "success" became associated with completing suicide. It is likewise painfully ironic that "failed" was associated with survival (of an attempt). That is why the trend now is to use other words instead like "completed" and "uncompleted."

Many people attempt to commit suicide but many do not succeed.

Indeed, most who attempt suicide never die from suicide, though mental disorders like depression are associated with additional health risks from a greater incidence of smoking, obesity, sedentary lifestyle, alcoholism, substance abuse, etc.

 

[Cat Dancer]

I know that you have a lot of pain, mental and physical. I worry about you kind of dwelling on suicide. I can relate. I struggle too. What I do sometimes is just tell myself NO NOT an option. Suicide is not an option and then it will kind of fade away for awhile. I know how hard it is with the thoughts. I just wish/hope you can learn to dwell on more positive things like having a family who cares about you.

 

[Daniel E.]

I just wish/hope you can learn to dwell on more positive things like having a family who cares about you.

And also positive behaviors to interefere with rumimation like maybe spending more time outdoors or going out more, doing something new, listening to new music, socializing, getting some CDs or DVDs from the library, etc. I find it especially helpful to spend more time in social spaces or in Nature, both of which provide novelty since neither type of environment is static.

 

[Retired]

So what does a person do or say to their family and friends after a failed attempt? I would feel so bad so much worse for not succeeding.

First, as Daniel has accurately stated, there is no success in a completed suicide, only tragedy for everyone involved. In fact the tragedy extends not only to the immediate family and friends, but also to just about everyone who may have had recent contact with the person who tragically completed the suicide.

Second, the response of friends and family is not the issue here, but rather tha fact that you are focused on self destructive behaviour fueled by distorted thinking.

It's like like a diabetic shopping in a candy store or an alcoholic shopping in a liquor store.

You need to avoid the influences that feed your self destructive thinking and seek out positive suportive influences that can help re-orient your thinking toward becoming healthy and productive.

Sue, can you see that your thinking is currently distorted, and as a result you seem to be seeking out self destructive thoughts and activities?

Numerous people are trying to point you in the direction to get the kind of professional help that can restore your rational thinking and keep you safe, yet you seem to be resisting to act on their constructive advice and continue to focus on self destruction.

Are you reporting this behaviour to your psychiatrist and to your CMHA worker and the therapists you see?

Are you ready to get out of this negative spiral?

 

[suewatters1]

Steve my CMHA worker knows I have a plan that I am not going to act on. I play a dangerous game that is worse then cutting and mixing things together and they know that.
I go see my Psychiatrist on Monday morning and my CMHA worker Tuesday morning and Psychotherapist Tuesday evening. Also hopefully I will have no trouble getting 2 weeks off from my DR on Monday. They know everything. I left them voicemail.

Thanks
PS: I am a diabetic going into a candy store.

Sue

 

[Retired]

I play a dangerous game that is worse then cutting and mixing things together

Help me understand the way you see the up side of doing this.

They (doctors) know everything

What are they advising you to do to overcome this behaviour?

PS: I am a diabetic going into a candy store.

...knowingly placing oneself in a risky, dangerous or triggering situation is irresponsible behaviour for a rational adult.

 

[suewatters1]

There is not up side to it. But for me it's somehow stop me from thinking and I can't focus on anything I mean the bad stuff and it's a way to calm me down. But I know it's wrong. I was in the hospital for 2 day last fall because the hospital found out about it and send me to psych ward for 2 days. I even did while I was in the psych ward for almost 2 hours without them finding out. Which don't make sense. I was asked to do anonymous survey a few months later about my stay and I told them everything even about the dangerous game I played. Maybe things will be better for the next person going in.

What my DR tell me to do is to stop doing it; it's dangerous but not doing anything more which I need more then just to tell me to stop.
My sugar levels were good the last few years with my meds even if I forget to take them twice a day sometimes but since my DR lower my Depression pill to 100mg which is the Max ( I was on 150 mg) I notice my sugars weren't as good I gained weight and my latest blood work shows my creatine level are below normal when they were above normal last year. So that bothers me too. I am watching a bit more what I eat when I make myself a meal. I can't even do that lately so I hope the two weeks off I will learn to clean my house do my dishes and make proper meals again.
I had somewhat a better day at work but I glad I am home and I hope that I have no problem getting the 2 weeks off I want.

Thanks Steve

Sue

---------- Post added at 04:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------

Could it be like OCD because I am so obsess with do it to call me down?

Sue

I think if I was a rational person I wouldn't be thinking of suicide right?

Thanks for your input

Sue

 

[Daniel E.]

I think if I was a rational person I wouldn't be thinking of suicide right?

I like the metaphor that it is like trying to overcome a cold virus with a nuclear bomb.

 

[Retired]

I think if I was a rational person I wouldn't be thinking of suicide right?

No, rational people can engage in destructive or irresponsible behaviours because their thinking becomes distorted. By seeking professional help and following their therapeutic recommendations, along with modifying the destructive behaviours to adopt productive behaviours can help.

Thinking about suicide, formulating a plan, mixing substances not intended to be mixed are dangerous, destructive and unhealthy behaviours.

But I know it's wrong

Then you need to take the necessary steps to modify these behaviours by following the advice of your doctors. The work to change behaviours is probably hard, but you deserve a better quality of life than what you are describing, and the hard work should be worth it.

 

[suewatters1]

I was never told how to my modify my destructive behavior execpt to do relaxation exercise.

Sue

 

[Retired]

I was never told how to my modify my destructive behavior execpt to do relaxation exercise.

I was not aware of that, Sue. You had noy shared that in previous posts.

When you see your psychiatrist the next time, ask if you could start a program of behavioural modification (I believe it is now referred to as CBT..cognitive behavioural therapy to help figure out ways you can modify the very behaviours that seeem to dominate and perhaps control your life, based on what you have shared with us.

You may be referred to a different specialist, perhaps a psychologist with expertise in CBT.

Others may have additional suggestions on how you can become enroled in a program that might just help turn your life around.

 

[suewatters1]

Steve I usualy go to my appointments and talk about what is bothering me and how I feel and he ask me questions. Sometimes he would ask questions about my childhood down to every minut details.
With my Psychotherapist I do the same thing but I think he deals with CBT so I will ask him also.
Yesterday at the Leadhand told me that people with a work related injury if there is only 2 jobs will say and they can't do either job then they will split a job in 2. Because there is less modified work since doubled up some jobs but if you don't have work related injury they don't do that.
That is not true by the Human rights acts but that is what they considered the truth which is wrong.
I know the law for people with Disabilities and I tried telling them 5 years ago and was yelled at for trying to prove my point.
Both my DRS told me I was right that they have to treat work related and non work related injuries the same. Wait till I tell that to my DRS and my new lawyer. She is good and she is one of our City Council members voted by the people.

Sue

 

[Retired]

I usualy go to my appointments and talk about what is bothering me and how I feel and he ask me questions....my Psychotherapist I do the same thing

I have always felt the realtionship between a patient (client) and health provider should be a collaboration, a partnership where both parties contribute to the conversation. This is not to say the patient is telling the doctor what to do, because, the doctor, therapist or psychologist is a trained professional we are consulting for their expertise.

However, I don't feel the client or patient should be a passive participant, where the health professional does all the talaking and recivies no input or direction from the patient.

A full collaboration requires complete and unconditional honesty and disclosure of one's entire medical history, with no exclusions. Your healthcare professional should not be judgemental, and nothing disclosed within the interview should leave the romm; but that information is crusial for your health care professional to be able to make an objective evaluation of your situation, so that effective treatment options can be offered.

Therefore, Sue, if you are going to get the full benefit of your therapy, you need to take an active role by telling your doctor and therapists what goals in therapy you expect to achieve, the issues you expect to get resolved, and yo need to make sure they are fully aware of every symptom and activity in your life that contributes to the issues that are adversely affecting your life at this time.

Once you and your therapists fully understand each other, the next step is to establish a proposed time line of what you can expect from your therapy, how long it might take and what the end result is expected to be.

If you are satisfied with the expected result and the plan on how to get there, your job (responsibility) is to follow the instructions given to you and report back any deviations from the therapeutic plan.

That is not true by the Human rights acts but that is what they considered the truth which is wrong.

It is my opinion that complex labor related issues between an employee and employer should be handled by a professional labor consultant such as a lawyer specializing in labor law. Other than routine disagreements about everyday job related issues that can be resolved in a conversation or memo internally, when issues become as complex as yours seems to be, I feel it's counter productuve for you, the employee to be advocating on your own behalf with management.

Given your fragile emotional and psychological state at this time, I don't feel you can be effective in advocating your own case, as your employer or their representatives don't seem to want to accomodate your needs.

If I were you, I would get a lawyer who specializes in labor law, and let that person handle all communications and negotiations on your behalf, if you feel the final result is financially worth the cost of hiring your own advocate.

Your other option is to walk away from the job, the employer and make other arrangements, in the interests of your own good health. In all situations there often comes a time when we have to acknowledge nothing more can be gained, and just walk away, knowing we put up the best fight we could.

 

[suewatters1]

Thanks Steve. I disclose everything to my DRS. They help me deal with other issues like if a family issues comes up I don't know how to deal with or how to handle some work issues I have but I need also to deal with my distructive behaviors.
The lawyer I will have is part of the Legal Clinic for people with low income and you only pay if you have to go to court and you win.
Because I am on Ontario Disabilty Pension I want to quit working but not all of my meds are covered by ODSP and my DR has to ask permission to get them paid for and he hasn't done it yet and I keep asking him. We have a good drug plan at work it pay 90% of our meds. It's a plan the company pays for we don't.
I also want to get a few things I want before I retire. Since I just started getting money from them last summer I have been trying to pay off my credit cards and I just renewed my mortgage and I got to make sure I could live off $1140.00 a month which I can't right now but working hard to get there.
I was hoping I could wait till next year but that might be impossible now. I get money every month from ODSP to make up for some of my lost hours at work which helps me right now. So if I can get 2 weeks off work and in May I can start taking my holidays ( I get 5 weeks) then that will help.

Sue

---------- Post added at 01:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 PM ----------

After reading the article that DR. Baxter posted about bullying made me realize that if I ever decide to commit suicide I would want my family to post a letter in the newpaper that I would have written describing that being bullied for years had led me to commit suicide and I would want the whole world to know.

Sue

---------- Post added at 01:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------

I am in the mood to self destruct right now. I am just hurting so much from reading that article.

Sue

 

[Daniel E.]

BTW: http://forum.psychlinks.ca/therapy-and-therapists/28636-essential-secrets-of-psychotherapy.html

 

[Cat Dancer]

Sue, the best "revenge" would be you living a happy, healthy life. Suicide is not the answer. Hurting yourself is not the answer either. Keep working with your doctors and finding healthy ways to get the pain out instead of taking it out on you. That won't solve anything.

 

[Daniel E.]

Also:

Misfortune arises when survivors imagine (again, “language” about) their life as a better or more whole human being if the trauma and its pain could be eliminated...

A common sticking point for clients happens when they hold themselves out to be broken or damaged as a result of their trauma and associated experience. This happens when clients lose contact with themselves as an experiencing being and fuse with their mind—holding the things that the mind has to offer as literally true. The resolution lies in recognition of self-as-context, in recognition that the client is a whole and experiencing being—larger than the mind and what it has to say...

Self-as-context refers to the idea that we are more than the thoughts, feelings, or physical sensations we are experiencing at any given moment. Each one of us is an entity with all sorts of phenomena going on at all times. That is, we are inhaling and exhaling, our sensory receptors are picking up information, and our thoughts and feelings are also part of this constant and dynamic process occurring within us. As such we are the context for these phenomena, the “whole being greater than the sum of its parts.” This may sound deceptively simple; the ramifications are quite profound, particularly for trauma survivors...Understanding herself as context as opposed to content helps her make the distinction between these internal experiences and her actual self. This concept helps trauma survivors get out of the bind of having to erase their internal experiences in order to be okay. In addition, if the self is distinct from these internal experiences, then it follows that the self cannot be broken or ruined by trauma. This realization is huge for our clients...

ACT specifically targets experiential avoidance and is largely focused on changing one’s life rather than changing one’s insides...The client is asked to be willing to feel what she feels, notice what she thinks, be aware and mindful, and make and keep commitments that are consistent with her personal values...

We work with people to let go of the struggle to avoid thoughts and feelings associated with the trauma. At the same time, it is important to help people to start engaging in activities that enrich their lives...

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/acceptance-and-commitment-therapy-act/20498-treating-trauma-with-act.html

Similarly:

It came to me that perhaps I was holding onto these early traumas because in some way I felt like the past was me. In other words, who would I be if not for these memories?...

There is an in-between state where you acknowledge what was but the memory no longer has control over you. I have no specific method or technique to share except that it does take a conscious effort to acknowledge the past but also re-focus your thinking on the present...

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/post-tra...-and-memory-how-we-can-change-the-script.html

And: posttraumatic growth