Unsure what gender I identify as

[gooblax]

As stated in the title. The gender role that I was born into has often not really felt right. Historically I've just put it down to the expected role and not sharing some of those main characteristics, and usually that's been enough to move on from. Now I'm wondering if it may be the gender itself.

I've can't remember having ever been comfortable identifying my body as being the gender that it is. I want to find out if I could accept it if it looked like the opposite, and if I'd be happier being interacted with and referred to as a member of the opposite gender.

In general I need to find out who I am and stop being afraid to be that person, but right now this feels like the single point of failure

 

[Banned]

I'm partially at a loss for words on how to respond, Gooblax, yet there's a huge part of me that wants to reply.

Individuals who go through gender reassignment surgery are usually required to live as the gender they are transitioning to for a minimum of one year, in addition to undergoing extensive medical and psychological testing.

Now, just because you don't identify with your gender doesn't necessarily mean you want to transition to the opposite gender. There's always the "in between" area which can be a hard spot to be in.

I don't know where I fall either, if it makes you feel any better. I've defeminised myself as much as I can. I've had a hysterectomy and a breast reduction and I have short hair. I don't wear any make up. So I don't like being girly but I wouldn't want to be a guy either. I just don't fit.

Is that kind of where you're at, Gooblax?

 

[gooblax]

Thanks for the reply and for sharing your experience with me Turtle.

I'm not sure where I sit so at the moment I guess I'm in the middle like you mentioned, but I'm not sure if the other gender would or wouldn't be right for me. There's been plenty of times over the years where I've thought in passing that it would make more sense if I was the opposite gender, but giving it serious consideration is different and difficult without knowing what that would really entail. This past week has been the first time I've ever seriously started looking into what it would be like to transition. I know I'm not ready to make the call one way or the other, but I'm not sure what I need to do to figure it out and be ready.

 

[MHealthJo]

I just wanted to add an entirely subjective thought as well... Not to diminish or invalidate transgenderness in any way, but sometimes I also wonder whether an element of the discomfort some people experience, could be partly due to 'society' stuff that could be different...

For example, I know in different parts of the world or even different families, there are different degrees of "genderising" children.

Sometimes I wonder: if kids were just encouraged to play and hang out with both gender kids pretty equally, learn and enjoy all different kinds of activities and games and interests and tv shows and household chores and subjects and jobs and household / relationship roles.... rather than "one gender does/wears this, the other gender does/wears that..."

...sometimes I wonder if we'd end up with overall more comfort, people having less of an 'exact expectation' of themselves, and rather just have all sorts of different individuals interacting in all sorts of ways, based more on their personality and preferences and stuff.

What I think is good though, is realising that in many places there are plenty of people who think about things in this way quite a bit anyway.There has been lots of growth this century, in this viewpoint of just looking at people as individuals, and in the idea that gender identity or attributing certain things to one gender or another, might be much more of a 'spectrum' or an 'individual mix' rather than 'either/or'. And that that's fine.

(The level and types of 'genderising' has always varied from one culture to another, too, and sometimes even quite a lot within different pockets of one culture, one country, one city, etc.)

I definitely see more people these days mixing different elements, and even mainstream fashion has had lots of androgynous elements going on this century.

I guess I just think it's good that perhaps in some ways these days,there is a bit less pressure to absolutely 'take a stand' one way or another in various aspects of ourselves... Openness in the ideas of what a 'man' or 'woman' is, or should be, or even what a 'person' should be, has definitely grown. At the very least, communities and cultures and groups and areas exist where these ideas are less fixed or pressured.

For those who aren't sure / ready to / may not transition, I don't know whether it could be somewhat relieving to know that just because certain viewpoints or expectations influenced us in whatever family and decade our early years were in, doesn't mean that we are living in exactly the same world now, or that we necessarily have to put the same expectations / dichotomy onto ourselves.

A pretty complicated thing though, and of course even though openness has grown, when it comes to various situations such as the business / work world, family, all kinds of stuff, obviously it can be very complicated and I don't wanna sound like I'm minimizing this stuff.

It's really great though Gooblax that you are doing some thinking in terms of 'who I actually am' / 'what's right for me'.

 

[gooblax]

sometimes I also wonder whether an element of the discomfort some people experience, could be partly due to 'society' stuff that could be different...

I'd say it's absolutely an element, but am not convinced that it's necessarily the whole story.

eg. For me, I'm accustomed to understanding and dealing with that part of it and do better at expressing my preferences in some areas than others.
But I'm currently having trouble aligning the physical preference confusion part into that same model.

 

[gooblax]

[SIGN]Holy awkward thread revival, Batman![/SIGN]

Does anyone know of any self-help resources about how to deal with / overcome "gender dysphoria" (or whatever other term someone wants to use for internal, social, physical discomfort related to perceived gender non-conformance) in ways that:

• Are more about accepting oneself as the person that they are (i.e. not affirming a different gender),
• Are not full of radicalized or politicized content,
• Are not tailored towards sexual orientation or trauma, and
• Are not just random blogs or social media posts from random people whose only qualifications are lived experience?

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I'll do some research and see what I can find.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I can see the difficulty you are probably having in finding helpful information about gender nonconformity independent of transgender issues. My preliminary searches pretty much all led to articles or information assuming that this was linked either to homosexuality or to transgender issues.

You might have better luck researching non-binary gender identity as a topic. There you are more likely to find information about individuals who do not identify exclusively as either male or female. They are sometimes referred to as "genderqueer", a term which seems to me to be unnecessarily pejorative. Other terms are "demigirl" and "demiboy" which also seem to be rather condescending or insulting to my ears. Still, using those terms in information searches may lead you to helpful resources.

I came across these which you might use as starting points:

• 9 Things People Get Wrong About Being Non-Binary | Teen Vogue
• What Does It Mean to Identify as Nonbinary?
• Understanding Gender | Gender Spectrum
• Amazon.com: Nonbinary Gender Identities: History, Culture, Resources (9781442275515): Charlie McNabb: Books
• Genderqueer and Non-Binary Genders (Critical and Applied Approaches in Sexuality, Gender and Identity): 9781137510525: Medicine & Health Science Books @ Amazon.com
• Amazon.com: How to Understand Your Gender: A Practical Guide for Exploring Who You Are (9781785927461): Alex Iantaffi, Meg-John Barker: Books
• Amazon.com: You and Your Gender Identity: A Guide to Discovery (9781510723054): Dara Hoffman-Fox, Zinnia Jones, Sam Dylan Finch, Zander Keig: Books

See also attachment.

 

[Daniel E.]

From Google Scholar, another academic article using the terms from David:

 

[GaryQ]

[SIGN]Holy awkward thread revival, Batman![/SIGN]

Does anyone know of any self-help resources about how to deal with / overcome "gender dysphoria" (or whatever other term someone wants to use for internal, social, physical discomfort related to perceived gender non-conformance) in ways that:

• Are more about accepting oneself as the person that they are (i.e. not affirming a different gender),
• Are not full of radicalized or politicized content,
• Are not tailored towards sexual orientation or trauma, and
• Are not just random blogs or social media posts from random people whose only qualifications are lived experience?

I see from the original post being almost 4 years old that this has been on your mind for a while. I have no cables or tools for that
And I have no advice to offer except that until you are 100% sure then gender change is not an option. Then if ever you are 100% certain that that is the option you have chosen wait at least a year after that to make sure you really were 100% sure that that is the path you really want to take. I find that society, although certain groups push it as "you will finally be in the body you want", still hasn't changed as we try to pretend. People just judge or comment in our backs to stay politically correct. You need to reflect on how it would change your environment on a daily basis. etc.. But I'm pretty sure you have already gone through all the possible scenarios in your mind.

I like the fact that you seek intelligent and unbiased information. The problem I see there is that on that subject most of what you might find would be in one of the bottom 3 categories you have pointed out that you are not interested in. Most of it will be subjective unfortunately. My opinion would be subjective also as I believe option 1 is the best choice. But that's only one of so many biased opinions.

Hope you find peace in the process of figuring it all out.

 

[gooblax]

Thanks for looking into it David and Daniel.

I haven't had the chance to check out all the resources yet but will try and make my way through them.

It just seems to me like it's in a bit of a weird spot.

There seems to be 4 main ways that people suggest dealing with struggles related to gender non-conformance:

1. Transition to the other gender. There are lots of formal and informal resources on this, and community around it. And it has the lure of a step-by-step pathway as a way to begin resolving the struggle, complete with before and after testimonials. But those steps are serious and permanent for the most part, and for some people it won't be the right choice.
2. Adopt a non-standard gender identity. Formal and informal resources are gaining traction here. But it's also seen as controversial and is certainly not mainstream accepted. There is definitely a community around it, but to put it bluntly, some subdivisions of this camp get a bit weird. It's hard to separate reasonable from unreasonable here, and terminology doesn't seem to help.
3. Accept yourself and reject gender roles. For some reason, this option seems to lack formal resources. There seems to be two streams:
   • "Just do it, anyone can!" - i.e. it should be easy, it doesn't matter, there is no need to struggle with this, there is certainly no need to label it. This is fine in theory, but does not address the struggle that the gender non-conforming person has. Instead it minimises it without offering up a playbook on how to move forward. Unless it's linked to processing homosexuality, trauma, bullying, abuse, personality disorder... and treatment of those as discrete issues, with the hope that the gender stuff is resolved along with it.
   • "I learned to do this by embracing radical feminism" territory, which often ties itself to sexual orientation. There's no playbook outside that space. No community outside that space. And it seems like a pretty daunting and unusual space to peek into, so I haven't gone there.
4. Accept yourself and turn to faith/God. I'm going to be honest that this line of reasoning doesn't make sense to me because I'm not spiritual or religious. Outside of having a supportive faith-based community and using prayer/meditation/etc. as a way to process and/or try to let go of issues, I don't see anything that helps with gender stuff.

'Camp 3' above seems to me like the natural first step for someone exploring issues related to gender non-conformance today's society. I think most people's unexplored opinions lay in 'Camp 3'. But I'm confused why instead of offering any practical assistance, it suddenly becomes so divisive, rejecting the issue, blaming the issue on something else, and instead using all its air-time to project the evils of 'Camps 1 and 2'.
How can anyone who is simply looking for answers and information relate to or feel supported within 'Camp 3' unless they themselves are already predisposed to agreeing with the negativity that 'Camp 3' projects? Uniting against common enemies, but I fail to see positive action.
Is it any wonder, then, that people shift toward 'Camps 1 and 2' depending on the nature of the problem that they're having? So is 'Camp 3' an outdated relic of the past, or does it just need to update its branding and outputs?

I have no desire to be controversial, political or anything else, and I find it difficult to critically review the different viewpoints when there is so much vitriol and division between and within them. It's hard to tell if something sounds like nonsense because it's wrong, or because it's a fearmongering tactic from emotional reasoning, or because it's just a differing experience that's new to me and I'm biased by my own experiences.

Whoops, I didn't mean to write a novel as a post.
______

Thanks for the advice Gary. I agree that gender change relating to 'Camp 1' above would be a huge step and is not something to be taken lightly or without intense self-scrutiny and deliberation. Over the ~4 years since the OP I have had multiple occasions to consider what it would be like for me personally, and at this stage know that it's not something that I want to pursue for a number of reasons.

Plus, it takes me an unusual amount of research just to buy a phone. I'm going to be even slower and more cautious with a decision putting my entire future on the line

 

[David Baxter PhD]

You will notice that at least some of the resources make the very important distinction between gender conformity and gender identity and sexual orientation. These are three different things.

That said, decisions about what you want to do with your life in the future should probably, I think, look at all three factors.

Ultimately this is about quality of life, self-acceptance, self-discovery, and fulfillment. Who are you as a person fundamentally? Are you content or happy with that? If not, what do you need to change or address to move toward feeling more content or happy with that?

If the issue is primarily one of gender noncomformity and not gender identity, you already have some of your answers. There is no reason you cannot identify as female and continue to live as a woman and still reject stereotypical female gender roles. If that is the case, the resolution has more to do with self-acceptance than anything else, and sexual orientation becomes a separate question for you.

If your questions are truly about gender identity, I think you need to also examine and address issues of sexual orientation as well in order to work toward resolution and self-acceptance.

However, I would caution anyone about moving too rapidly toward assumptions about transsexualism and especially gender reassignment. That, in my opinion, should not occur until the fundamental questions about gender identity, sexual orientation, and self-acceptance have been resolve. In other words, I think that should be closer to the end of this journey and not something anyone should jump to as a starting point. That is a recipe for disaster.

In saying this, I am NOT saying that transsexualism doesn't exist (or that it shouldn't exist - this is not about judging or condemning anyone) nor that it isn't a legitimate sexual identity nor that gender reassignment is never a reasonable and acceptable resolution for an individual.

My concern is simply that many people seem to jump to that prematurely when the real issues are the primary ones: gender identity, sexual orientation, and self-acceptance.

And at the end of all that, I want to wish you good luck in this journey, gooblax. I would also suggest that at some point you might want to consider consulting a therapist to help. But if you do that, be very careful to assure yourself that the therapist has adequate training and expertise (many, perhaps most do not) and a very open mind to all of the possible resolutions and will not prematurely steer you toward one solution or another. That decision is yours and yours alone to make. I would urge you not to let anyone else make it for you.

 

[GaryQ]

Plus, it takes me an unusual amount of research just to buy a phone. I'm going to be even slower and more cautious with a decision putting my entire future on the line

Sometimes that's not such a great thing but in this particular situation it reassures me

David's post is really wise. I think figuring out where you stand and how to be happy etc are really important steps and I think you are very smart and can avoid being influenced by others based on their personal opinions. it's about you not what others have or are going through!

 

[gooblax]

Yeah, I understand what you mean David and Gary.

From my research over the ~4 years and the bits of the linked resources that I’ve read so far, I gather that the first thing to do is to figure out gender expression. After all, there’s not going to be much self acceptance going on whilst I feel that I'm conducting myself inauthentically in some ways.
But there I am stuck.

It’s so hard to ignore the direct messages I received throughout my life that the way I wanted to look/dress was ‘wrong’. My progress with that has been phenomenally slow. It’s frustrating to see statements like “you can wear/do whatever you want” when that’s objectively true but my subjective experience is the opposite.
If you’ll excuse the rotten comparison, I feel like a default avatar - selected just because the controller buttons didn’t work to change it. In some cases, the least worst choice. But now that my controller has been upgraded, I’m terrified to use it and made miserable by my cowardice.

 

[GaryQ]

Dear gooblax,

As you know by now Steve and David speak more with a technical and compassionate background of years of experience... me I speak from the heart because I'm an emotionally sensitive person and even if we've never met I care about you. So I hope my words never come across or are interpreted the wrong way.

For one you are not a coward. You are an extremely intelligent and smart person. This is not a decision as simple as someone coming out of the closet and assuming their sexual preference and if it don't work just crawl back into the closet and pretend it was just a phase you went through.

Your situation is a very complex one but at the same time shares a very common denominator with many people. Not happy with how they look, feel etc..
Now I'm not downgrading your personal experience to that of someone that says "I'm too fat" or "I'm too skinny", " and on and on. But the inner turmoil is the same.

Now my personal opinion is simple and complicated. If you feel you would be more comfortable in the role of the opposite gender then right out assume it. Live the way you like and fix yourself up and dress like the opposite gender if that is what you really desire. There are many guys and gals that fix themselves up so well in the opposite gender that you couldn't tell that they were not and ALL THAT without undergoing gender reassignment. I feel that is the only way you would know where your heart and mind really stand. Live the role and assume all the good and bad that comes with it and see what it's really like. You will have the same judgement by your peers as if you underwent surgery and hormone therapy. Except you might come to the conclusion that there are people that will always have negative remarks no matter what you do. (That I'm sure you are well aware of). Then there is the fact that you have a work and social life and that any change you make will be a shock to some and cool with others. There will be judgement and encouragement and others will simply accept you because they want you to be happy above all even if they don't agree with your decision they will respect you life choices (them is the good folks to have around you. They don't always agree but love you and respect your decisions)

And most importantly, you need to love yourself for who you are INSIDE first and foremost and find peace and happiness being you. The outside is just a shell. It's what's inside that really matters. If you're not happy being gooblax then being in one gender identity or the other won't make you any happier. You been as you are for all these years so there's no hurry.

I know it probably doesn't help much as this is something you have to first work out in your heart but at the same time use that great intelligence of yours to not be led into thinking it might automatically solve one or all of your problems. It also has the potential of creating more.

I sincerely hope you can find peace through all this and as long as your confused you know we are here to support you and encourage you and accept you whatever decision you make even if at times we ain't much help. We care and want you to be happy. Doesn't matter how long or how many posts it takes! There's lost of room on the server

Gary

 

[gooblax]

I've been trying to improve my confidence with changing small things about my appearance. Today was the second time ever I've worn a baseball cap backwards in public, because I'm just that fearful of changing my appearance in any slightly discernible way.

One good thing with the way I already look and things I do is that I very rarely experience harassment.
However every so often while walking along the street and passing a random dude walking the opposite direction, the dude will suddenly jump/stomp and/or shout just as we're passing each other. Presumably just to startle me and get a reaction, given that he'll then kind of be looking in my direction while I maintain a very strict 'look straight ahead and don't engage' policy.

I've never connected the dots before, but after it happened today it made me wonder... I guess that's what this bizarre behaviour is about...?
Is this legitimately a thing that people do?

Disclaimer - today's guy might have shouted a word when he jumped/stomped the ground beside me. Wouldn't know, since if it was a word it was monosyllabic French.
:dontknow:

At least I can't tie this experience to the baseball cap, but I expect the less 'conforming' I look the more I'd encounter comments or bizarre behaviour from random passers by.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Have you considered the possibility that that guy was just your average jerk?

That's neither normal nor acceptable behavior from anyone and says a lot more about him than you.

 

[gooblax]

Yeah it's definitely one of the possibilities. It weirds me out whenever it happens though. When children do it, fine because they're still learning socially acceptable behaviour. But when adults do it, it's really strange.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Some cities just seem to collect strange people.

Like New York City. Or downtown Toronto. Probably hundreds of others.

 

[Daniel E.]

When I was in my 30s in downtown Atlanta, I started walking very fast away from someone for a little bit. Fight-or-flight reaction to something strange/violent they said. No one else was phased. I was just not used to the environment.