- Thread starter stopdog
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Throughout this thread, this seems to be your starting position. I can't help but wonder what real benefit you get from seeking therapy if your starting position is so rigid. Just a thought for you to consider, stopdog.
Again, I fully admit I suck at this and may well fail again. Desperation is why I am trying therapy again in any format. I understand the reasons why it is possible that it will not work from the client's side - I was hoping for some reason for their stance on this other than their feelings or their control. Again, it is my money, my time, my life, and I am not asking them to hear about each other or anything the other one says - so what difference could it possibly make to them? The answer seems to be they do not feel trusted and they are not in control. I may well find the experiment does not work for me eventually and then I will stop and choose one of them, quit altogether or try a different one. But I will have learned something about both myself and how therapy works if such is the case.
Therapy isn't my forte . I tend to agree with Daniel that you seem to be fighting the process quite a bit. Why not just relax, be forthright and stop over analyzing. Your premise is based on a lot of speculation, in my opinion. Therapy is not about control. And as much as I've struggled with it, even I recognize that. If you persist in thinking of therapists as people who seek control or that they need something from you, you will never succeed. They're there to support you. So the game is to relinquish that control yourself- right now, you're in a tug of war with your therapists. You feel the need to provide an explanation for every aspect of it. Why? Why not just go in there and talk, without the over-thinking part of it (about the process itself)? Seems to me that you're so focused on the process itself, that you're forgetting why you're there in the first place.
If I do not understand the process, how will I know if I am doing it right? Why is understanding the process contrary to doing it? Why will they not explain the "process"?
The other info I believe has come from the links and info provided - if it is not about control and the therapist's need to feel trusted/love/gratitude - then why tell a client they cannot see two at once? How is that not controlling? I shall see if my experiment works and if it doesn't, I will take responsibility for it being a failed attempt. It cannot fail any worse than my earlier attempts at doing therapy the conventional way.
The other info I believe has come from the links and info provided - if it is not about control and the therapist's need to feel trusted/love/gratitude - then why tell a client they cannot see two at once? How is that not controlling? I shall see if my experiment works and if it doesn't, I will take responsibility for it being a failed attempt. It cannot fail any worse than my earlier attempts at doing therapy the conventional way.
I think your questions intially were great. And you got wonderful answers to them. But I won't debate this with you. Maybe others will.
Therapy is hard at the best of times. And I'll qualify it by saying that, it has been for me - I suppose we're all different. Are you really trying to understand the process? Or just trying to undermine it? Fair question, I think, given your posts on this thread.
In my opinion, Daniel was spot on when he suggested to you that you were not trusting the process - keeping all of it at arm's length. Good way to not have to look at yourself. I did that for a long time
I'm not saying that you shouldn't find a therapist that suits your needs. And sometimes, that does take time. But if you always set foot in there with the caveat that they have nothing to offer you...you're doomed from the start. And from what you've written, you seem to have strong opinions on the matter.
As for your question about therapists advising against multiple therapists - you've received wonderful insight on this thread.
Your experiment will fail. And I get a sense that this is the outcome you're hoping for. Then you can blame the process, the therapists, psychology as a whole, and you'll never once have to look at yourself.
Never?
So... are you saying... it's always the therapist and never you? Why a power struggle? Why do you feel like you lack power? Why do you feel that the therapists knowledge which can help you is somehow a disadvantage for you? Why does there have to be a fight for dominance over you, or over your therapist? Do you imagine your therapist is trying to subdue you? Why do you think that the therapist is going to use what he learns about you against you instead of to help you?? Why do you seem to have this intense feeling about who is wrong or right?
To me a therapist is like a parent-figure. Is there something about parent-figures or people in authority that make you feel like you lack an advantage? Why do you feel the need to have an advantage in this setting? Is there something about parent-figures who are supposed to protect you that failed you somewhere down the line? That made you feel powerless, and that you felt you had to struggle against? Can you find it in yourself to try the opposite of what you've been doing so far all this time? Being vulnerable may make you uncomfortable, opening yourself up and trusting someone, that's hard. What if what you think your therapist is like, is really what you are like? Perhaps you are projecting that on other people as well?
My mom always thought it was everyone else. She even convinced me for a while that things were my fault. Well, consider this: a sane person realizes that if it's "Always them and it's never me" then there's something wrong with that perspective. It's a pattern. It's something in the way that a person is used to thinking.
Have you ever thought of thinking in your head "I need help" instead of "I don't trust you and I want to dig up something about you and you have to confess that there is something wrong with you: if you don't, you are lying, and therefore I get to find a new therapist. If you do admit you're a human being that makes mistakes, then that also proves that you are not a good therapist and that will also prove that I need a new therapist." So basically you've invented criteria that in every scenario no matter what therapist you see, or how many, that your therapist always loses and you always win. But you don't win. You lose again because now you have to start from scratch and you still harbor the same belief system that your therapist is an enemy instead of someone who can help you.
Nothing worse than being killed by friendly fire.
I accept that therapeutic failure is my fault. I have admitted several times on here that I suck at it - I have not blamed a therapist for my failure at it. I do not understand the process and I do acknowledge the failure to understand is my fault. I do not understand the phrase "trust the process". I do not trust them implicitly and nothing I have read from them or about them or in personal dealings with them has lead me to the conclusion that trusting them more was going to help. If I am wrong about that - then again I am the only one to blame and I accept that. I am the common denominator in all my failures.
I simply wondered why they seemed to care about not have two at one time, not whether it was a good plan in general to do so.
---------- Post added at 12:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------
So far, for me, the experiment is working although it may ultimately fail. I have stayed longer and talked more than in my other attempts which is at least different for me. I have no idea if it what is supposed to be happening or not. But I did not mean for the debate to be whether there were reasons not to do it, and I apologize for getting off track on my frustrations and failures, just why a therapist would care. And indeed there have been answers to that question. And indeed I was hoping for different reasons for them to set such rules.
I simply wondered why they seemed to care about not have two at one time, not whether it was a good plan in general to do so.
---------- Post added at 12:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------
So far, for me, the experiment is working although it may ultimately fail. I have stayed longer and talked more than in my other attempts which is at least different for me. I have no idea if it what is supposed to be happening or not. But I did not mean for the debate to be whether there were reasons not to do it, and I apologize for getting off track on my frustrations and failures, just why a therapist would care. And indeed there have been answers to that question. And indeed I was hoping for different reasons for them to set such rules.
Me too. Sorry about that. Getting nosy again. :facepalm:
I have received information on why some of them refuse to work with someone who is seeing another one - and I stick by my conclusions as to why and as being drawn from the information provided on this thread.
Again, for me it is going better than any other attempt I have had in the past so it may not fail. I do not have enough understanding of the "process" to blame it, I fully realize some people get something out of therapy/therapists/psychology and I am willing to admit any failure to do so will be mine.
Stopdog I was just wondering if both your current therapists have mentioned whether they are for or against clients having two therapists. Sorry if you mentioned that already.
If one or both are against it and your hoping to just keep seeing both secretly (which is up to you of course) and you actually do develop a good relationship with either or both your therapists, you may be putting that at risk also if one of the therapists were to find out. They may just stop seeing you or they may feel like you have been dishonest the whole time etc.
If one or both are against it and your hoping to just keep seeing both secretly (which is up to you of course) and you actually do develop a good relationship with either or both your therapists, you may be putting that at risk also if one of the therapists were to find out. They may just stop seeing you or they may feel like you have been dishonest the whole time etc.
Niether one has said anything about it. And it is true that I am running a risk of sorts because I do not know their position. I do not consider a secret - if either asked I would tell them. I see it as none of their business, not pertinent as to why I decided to see them. As far as I can tell, I have a decent business relationship with both of them. If one was to stop seeing me, then so be it.
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