Feeling crappy

[ThatLady]

I can understand your sensitivity concerning this subject, RBM. It's not an easy thing to deal with, much less to talk about. However, you must consider that even if you're not a threat to someone else's life, taking your own life does impact others. It impacts everyone who knows you. While it might seem that there are no other victims than yourself, that is just not true. Suicide impacts more than just the person who takes their own life. While we're at our lowest point, it's hard to see that. Yet, it's true.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Looking back at my own post, it sounds insensitive to me, RBM, but it was NOT intended that way. From your posts, I can't tell whether the concern was about a potential risk to yourself or to someone else. What I was trying to say is that having a doctor intervene in either case really is not a violation of your rights - it is an act that is intended to protect you from an even worse situation than you were facing at the time s/he took that action.

I can also fully appreciate that that it probably did not seem that way to you at the time, and I guess not even now. What I would hope for you is that eventually you will reach a point where you can appreciate that the action was taken not to punish you but to help you.

 

[RBM]

David Baxter & ThatLady, That is the most selfish attitude possible to think you have the right to control other people. Then to try to guilt people by saying suicide impacts others is perhaps the most unsympathetic thing I have ever heard in my life. Here you have suicidal people going through so much pain and difficulty and people actually have the nerve to heap an insult on them in the most horrible time in their life. How horrible.

You know what, everything we do in life impacts others. If you get a job you take one someone else could of had, you get food you same thing. But since people are selfish and like to pick on an easy target it's socially acceptable to pick on a suicidal person.

I'm sorry that you're ignorant to all this, and I definantly don't appreciate being ganged up on, specially for something that is such a sore subject for me.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

It isn't intended as ganging up, RBM, or as an insult - nor is it about "controling other people" other than to prevent someone from harming himself or someone else.

It's intended to try to help you understand that if a previous doctor or therapist arranged to have you hospitalized it was to help you, not to punish you.

 

[ThatLady]

I feel as David does, RBM. There was certainly no intent to "gang up" on you. When a person's life experiences have dragged them down to the point of wishing to die, they need help. Death isn't the help they need. That's why professionals seek to find a safe place for the person to recover from the trauma that has led them to feel that life is no longer worth living.

For the record, I've been there myself. I also almost lost my daughter to suicide. I'm anything but unsympathetic. Hospitalization saved me, and it saved my daughter. Was it enjoyable? Certainly not! However, it was theraputic and helped both of us to find our ways to freedom and enjoyment of all the wonders life has in store for each of us. That's what we want for you, hon. Those of us who have been through what you're going through do understand, and we do care. Believe me, we do.

 

[RBM]

Of course it's about control, people think that others should have the view of life as they do and they are taking away freedom. It's sickenly sinful and no one is here to help me pick up they the shattered pieces they helped create.

Don't talk down to me as if I am failing to understand some truth. They are the ones who have broken the moral law and should have to pay for their crimes. I argee that they weren't purposely trying to torture me.

Thatlady, you have certianly not gone through what I have. No one would treat me that way that had.

I'm sorry I brought this up, I obviously made a mistake and my poor communication skills probably made it worse.

 

[Lana]

Hi RBM;
I'm glad you brought this up. It may not give you all the answers you need, but at least, this forum is giving you the opportunity to discuss something that has had a great traumatic effect on you. So two good things are coming out of this: (1) you get to talk about what hurt you to people that care and are listening; and (2) this forum is doing what it was intended to do - giving us all space and place to discuss issues that are important to us.

I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience. Sometimes, the best of intentions can appear malevolent. But we can't go back in time and change things and similarly, it's not good to live in the past either, because we can't change anything, nor move forward...we get stuck. I hope you don't get stuck in that painful time for you. But if you need to be in that place a little longer, we'll be right there with you and for you.

 

[Lost]

RBM, I'm sorry I haven't checked this website for so long...? I see how much I've missed.

The problem with therapists, is, at the end of the day, they're not friends, who are there for you throughout...? They're there when you pay them...? And when you leave them - or they leave you - they're gone.

This is one thing that has really been bothering me...

My therapist mentioned once how she does care about me (she was trying to replace the mother I should have had) and how she does think about me at times other than our sessions.? Yet in the 2 or 3 times I urgently needed someone to lean on, someone to talk to, when I called she didn't pick up, and she didn't return my call either.? And I'm talking about calling her not more than 3 times in 5 months.

So they tell you they care, and they want to help, yet they're only interested in helping if it's between 2.30pm and 3.20pm on thursday afternoons, and when you've paid.? So how much do they really care...?? I mean, the time I really needed to talk to my therapist - it was REALLY URGENT, REALLY REALLY URGENT, (I wasn't about to commit suicide, but it was s/th else quite serious...) I felt really disappointed when she didn't even return my call.

I wonder what the position is of all the therapists on board here, regarding talking to clients out of sessions - for unpaid time.? I'm talking about the one-off time.

It's something I should talk about with her perhaps.? though I don't know where it's going to get us...? At the end of the day she has her own life, and as someone with friends in the 'biz' (the therapy 'biz' that is) I understand that therapists also need to switch off from their sessions with clients...

Anyway, RBM, you sound really angry and resentful of your therapist (and I'd be the same if it was me, I'm sure...) especially since it feels like they shattered your life and then left you abandoned afterwards...

RBM, it sounds like you've gone through hell...

Hang in there...

Some people do care about you...

 

[Peanut]

The problem with therapists, is, at the end of the day, they're not friends, who are there for you throughout...? They're there when you pay them...? And when you leave them - or they leave you - they're gone

I agree with you Lost, I think that is the hardest part about therapy.? I find it very difficult to reconcile that fact too.? It can feel a bit ingenuine at times.

RBM-I hope you are beginning to feel better.? It is really too bad that you had to go through so much-hopefully you'll emerge stronger from it.

 

[RBM]

Lana,
Well I can see why you are glad, it's all fine and dandy if you haven't had to live through it in the way I have. So despite what you think those 2 points are not good for me in this instance. But I have had many other positive experiences and support on this board and I appreciate that.

Let me tell you, intentions have their place and are very important, but they don't justify what's been done to me.

You may think you are giving some great advice on not looking in the past, but it comes off condescending and it's oversimplifying my situation. When something like this happeneds it's not about living in the past, it is a part of me now. Basically everthing that makes a person who they are is in the past. Maybe one day you will gain the experience I have and know how life altering it is, but I certianly hope not because ignorance is bliss in this case.



Lost,
I could not agree more with your point about therapists. That's one thing I think is so messed up is how in society it just seems that as soon as mental problems come up people are shipped off to the doctor/therapist to get fixed. But a doctor/therapist is basically a stranger doing a job, they cannot replace the support and love of friends and family.

I'm sorry your therapist wasn't there for you when you needed it.

I think your right about me being resentful and angry, hopefully in the future things get better for me.

Thank you, and Toeless, for the kind words.

 

[Lost]

Hey RBM,

Nice to hear from you after so long.

And I noticed your pic Toeless, it's nice to see you - if that is you!

Things have definitely changed on this site since I last posted... It's a little disconcerting, especially with all these emoticons blinking on top of the little box where I'm writing.

RBM, I personally don't actually blame therapists for the messed up society fact. Altho as I've written I'm struggling with this issue with my therapist, I understand that she can't be my friend, and that she has her own life. Really, my friends are my own concern. It's because society's so messed up (with people like me who had bad parents... or good parents who made seriously bad mistakes...) that the therapists come along to help. Maybe a therapist could spend more time with a client, but then will only have time for the one, as opposed to giving hourly sessions with a few, and hopefully helping a few people along the way.

I'm feeling quite crappy at the mo. Dunno why. I'm just tired and irritable, and have no patience for anything. I didn't sleep well last night, which never helps. I find myself wishing - and I don't even know what I'm wishing for... I'm just yearning for something and I don't even know how to work out what I want. So I sit here in front of my computer... and write something to post up here, and then waste time on the net.

I HATE sundays. No structure, no routine... I feel more lost than ever. EVerybody's busy with everybody, going out, doing things, and I'm stuck here... I'm really trapped in my own prison, coz I could go out just the same... I may even find a friend to go with if I tried.. but I just can't be bothered for anything. And I don't even know what I want. Do I want to go with a friend anyway? Do I want to spend some family time? I have no patience for family now. I just wanna yell and scream and tear my hair out.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

 

[Lana]

Lana,
Well I can see why you are glad, it's all fine and dandy if you haven't had to live through it in the way I have. So despite what you think those 2 points are not good for me in this instance. But I have had many other positive experiences and support on this board and I appreciate that.

Let me tell you, intentions have their place and are very important, but they don't justify what's been done to me.

You may think you are giving some great advice on not looking in the past, but it comes off condescending and it's oversimplifying my situation. When something like this happeneds it's not about living in the past, it is a part of me now. Basically everthing that makes a person who they are is in the past. Maybe one day you will gain the experience I have and know how life altering it is, but I certianly hope not because ignorance is bliss in this case.

Hi RBM;
I?ll start off by saying that my initial post was made in care not anger or condescension. I can tell by your reply that my words were not welcome. However, do not presume to think that I don?t know what I?m talking about, nor that I have lived a blissfully happy perfect life and do not know what hurt is. You don?t know me and you have no idea what experiences I?ve had. This thread is not about me, it?s about you. But I wanted to let you know while wallowing in your misery, you are effectively dishing it out to anyone that cares?really cares, and it hurts.

If you wish to remain bitter, angry, vengeful, and hold on to the pain while giving it to unsuspecting caring people, that is your prerogative. I found your comments to the most hurtful, oversimplified, and condescending I have received and they have hurt and offended me deeply. While I understand where that hurt comes from, I do not care to own it nor be made a target to take on your rage. It is yours to deal with, not mine.

My apologies for wanting to help. It won?t happen again.

Sincerely,
Lana.

 

[RBM]

Hi RBM;
I?ll start off by saying that my initial post was made in care not anger or condescension. I can tell by your reply that my words were not welcome.

It was conterdicting what I had just said about not wanting to make the topic and I felt it was dismissive of my feelings.

However, do not presume to think that I don?t know what I?m talking about, nor that I have lived a blissfully happy perfect life and do not know what hurt is. You don?t know me and you have no idea what experiences I?ve had.

What!?! You are the one that was trying to tell me how things were when you don't know me. How about you don't presume to know what is best for me. I never said you had no hurt, I don't know where you got that.

This thread is not about me, it?s about you. But I wanted to let you know while wallowing in your misery, you are effectively dishing it out to anyone that cares?really cares, and it hurts.

Wallowing in my misery? That's nice, since when do insults mean someone cares.

I'm hardly dishing it out. I'm standing up for myself and am not willing to be talked down to.

If you wish to remain bitter, angry, vengeful, and hold on to the pain while giving it to unsuspecting caring people, that is your prerogative.

You're tearing me down again, how can you say this is caring?

I found your comments to the most hurtful, oversimplified, and condescending I have received and they have hurt and offended me deeply. While I understand where that hurt comes from, I do not care to own it nor be made a target to take on your rage. It is yours to deal with, not mine.

To be honest I edited some things out of my post so it would be nicer. I tried to be considerate while still standing up for myself.

My apologies for wanting to help. It won?t happen again.

Sincerely,
Lana.

Maybe that's for the best.




Lost,

I didn't mean I blame therapists, I just meant I think they are relied on to much. Healthy connections with family and friends I believe are extremely important with mental health and is overlooked sometimes. I dunno just my thoughts on the matter.

Anyway hope you're feeling better.

Man when I think of hours wasted on the net, wow, I don't think I even want to know that number.

 

[ThatLady]

RBM, I'd be interested in hearing what you think we might be able to do to help you deal with some of the pain and anger you're experiencing. We don't really know exactly what happened to you to bring such anguish, but it's obvious something very traumatic was visited upon you. For that, I am sincerely sorry. I wish we could go back and undo these horrors. Unfortunately, we can't. All we can do is offer a hand now, in today. Perhaps, if you can tell us what you need, we will be better able to support you.

I think I speak for the majority here when I say we only want to be of help and support to one another. The last thing we wish to do is hurt or upset another forum member.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Let me echo what ThatLady said, RBM, but also add that I don't see anything in Lana's post that was anything but courteous, caring, and supportive - an attempt to be helpful. I don't see where she was being dismissive of your feelings or anyone else's. I too thought your response to her was quite abrupt and angry and I'm not sure what triggered that but I don't think it was in anything Lana posted - perhaps you are misinterpreting her words or perhaps something she said triggered you but if so that is within you, not in what she posted.

 

[Lost]

If I could add my 2 cents...

When reading Lana's post I really felt the love and care coming through. Lana, you sound like a wonderful person.

But I do see where RBM is coming from a little - only because i've had a few people telling me things like "Don't live in the past" and "there's no going back in time"... and I've found it to be the most frustrating and upsetting thing to hear...

Altho I understand that Lana didn't mean this at all, had someone written that to me, I may have felt like, "they think they can sum up all my problems, and take care of them all in 2 short paragraphs...!". Maybe I'd have felt like I'm worthy of more attention and more time than that... and I understand that RBM feels like she's oversimplifying something which to him is a huge, complicated, big BIG deal. Of course Lana didn't mean it that way, but I do understand why RBM's upset.

Re the 'going back in time' comment, on a simple level, it's like "duh! yeah, I know there's no going back in time. what, you think i'm stupid?!?"
Then, on a deeper level, I'm not aware that I AM living in the past, or that I'm trying to go back in time. So why do people tell me that? It's confusing and frustrating.

Thanks to my wonderful therapist, I now understand that because I never had the loving parents I needed, there's a child within me who's crying out for the love and care which I missed. And tho I'm an intelligent, sophisticated (so I like to think!) grown up adult, I'm still desparately missing the love from my childhood. Which means the child within me wants to go back in time, and get what I've been needing all this time. I'm angry deep down that I missed out on my childhood. I'm bitter about it. But had you suggested that to me a year ago, (b4 my wonderful therapist) I may not have believed you, and I may have thought you were talking nonsense.

So only because of this new deeper awareness do I understand that I AM actually wanting to go back in time, and fix things up. Otherwise, I would have remained confused and frustrated, that people are telling me this which ISN'T HELPING ME!
And my therapist has only said it to me once - about me HAVING to come to terms with my past, or I'll carry on feeling pain and anguish for the rest of my life, because she knows and understands how hard it is for me to even think about coming to terms with what happened. She understands that it is very painful for me to hear the words, "there's no going back.".
Now I realise what people meant when saying "there's no going back in time" but for someone like me (at that time in life) hearing that was the worst thing. Deep down, the only thing my sub-consciousness wanted, was to go back in time, and even now, I'm consciously aware of this need. To me, it can almost feel like a careless get-u-off-my-back comment, when someone says outright, "there's no going back in time" when it's something which I feel I so deeply deeply need.

So - I don't know whether my remarks are true of RBM's as well, but this could be in defense of his response. Just to try to explain to the wonderful people out there how their comments could be taken in a hurtful way, altho it really was totally totally unintended.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Good post, good points, Lost. Thank you.

 

[Lost]

Upon further reflection, I can totally totally see how Lana and RBM are on completely different wavelengths, and how Lana's good intentions were totally misunderstood and taken in the exact opposite way that Lana intended them...

Lana, you're speaking the language of deep deep emotions, the language of the heart.

When your language is translated into RBM's logical language - the language of the head - it can be understood as basic, and obvious, and misunderstood as having nothing to do with his particular dilemma.

This whole misunderstanding boils down to talking 2 people talking 2 different languages - in the same language.

 

[Lost]

Thank you David.

Your comment has somewhat alleviated the extent of the crappiness that I've been feeling.

(!)

 

[RBM]

RBM, I'd be interested in hearing what you think we might be able to do to help you deal with some of the pain and anger you're experiencing. We don't really know exactly what happened to you to bring such anguish, but it's obvious something very traumatic was visited upon you. For that, I am sincerely sorry. I wish we could go back and undo these horrors. Unfortunately, we can't. All we can do is offer a hand now, in today. Perhaps, if you can tell us what you need, we will be better able to support you.

I think I speak for the majority here when I say we only want to be of help and support to one another. The last thing we wish to do is hurt or upset another forum member.

Thank you for that.

I don't believe there is anything directly that can help me with my being forced into the hospital. And honestly I don't have hardly any hope for dealing with my personality disorders because I know how hard I have tried to overcome them and how little it has done and in some cases it makes it worse. I can't even properly express the frustration it has caused me. I only hope that if I can improve my life in other ways like building my self esteem and becoming a more mentally healthy person that it will help in ways I don't expect.

What I need is compassion.

I really don't like being told what to do or how I should feel because I know how different my problems are and how they have effected me and I find it very insulting that someone thinks they have the solution when they have never walked in my shoes. I know I'm not alone because depressed people have told me how they don't like it when people tell them that the cure for their depression is to "Get out there and get active". It's basically them same thing for me only different advice and different problem.

Let me echo what ThatLady said, RBM, but also add that I don't see anything in Lana's post that was anything but courteous, caring, and supportive - an attempt to be helpful. I don't see where she was being dismissive of your feelings or anyone else's. I too thought your response to her was quite abrupt and angry and I'm not sure what triggered that but I don't think it was in anything Lana posted - perhaps you are misinterpreting her words or perhaps something she said triggered you but if so that is within you, not in what she posted.

Well here you are again coming at me. If you can't see it perhaps you aren't very good at this aspect of your profession and should get some more training, or maybe personal experience would be the only thing you would learn from. Or maybe I'm just not part of the clique and you're defending your own. Afterall you didn't say anything about Lana's comments. I still feel very hurt that Lana said I was wallowing in my misery. It hurt my heart. I may not have done it the best way but I was trying to stand up for myself, whereas this felt like a shot taken at me when I'm vulnerable.

In any case I'm glad you're not my doctor.

But I'm certianly not going to be ganged up on and not defend myself. I don't have much pride or self-esteem but I feel I would be letting myself down so much if I didn't stand up for myself when I feel attacked just because I'm sick.

If I seem overly angry that's because that is often the only way I am able to defend myself because my Dependant Personality Disorder it's very hard for me to disagree with people so I have to use my emotion to stand up for myself.


Lost,

You seem to be able to understand me in many ways. Thanks for being a kind of mediator. To me you are being very courageous to look at my side of things when I don't seem to be to popular around here. I'm not trying to cause trouble or anything, it's just honest fear and pain that I feel.