Feeling crappy

[ThatLady]

If I might posit a question, RBM: Is Dependent Personality Disorder the only condition with which you have been diagnosed, or are there more? The more we know about you, the easier it will be for all of us to understand your feelings and responses.

 

[Peanut]

Hi RBM! First I want to extend to you all my compassion! I also want to tell you not to think that you're not popular around here...that is a common misconception with almost everybody here--everyone thinks that they are not popular, or liked or valued here at one time or another. It's actually not true and I think that most of us really like each other and you (even as I'm saying that I'm hesitating thinking maybe people don't like me LOL).

I didn't answer before because I didn't think that I had anything helpful to say but I was still glad to see you and interested in what you wrote. I think that you are direct and I like directness. Plus, it seemed like Lost was doing a really good job helping you so I didn't want to butt in, and probably others felt the same way.

Anyway I just wanted to say hi and that it is nice to see you back

PS-I think you might be being a little too hard on Dr. Baxter...but one of the really cool things about Dr. Baxter is that he's very forgiving (not that I think you're asking for forgiveness but in case you ever change your mind about him!)! Trust me I would know!

I hope you start feeling better RBM!!

PSS--Hi Lost!--it's great to see you again!! Where do you come up with all this great advice?!

 

[RBM]

I have Avoidant Personality Disorder and depression too. But I'm pretty confident my depression would lift if I was able to overcome my personality disorders.

Hi Toeless, thanks for the kind words, I hope your right. I sometimes take awhile to comeback because I'm scared of what might have been said about me.

 

[Peanut]

Hey RBM--don't be scared to come back. Nobody will say anything bad about you. We all have your back...not that you need it, you seem to do just fine standing up for yourself! 😉

I really don't know that much about Avoidant Personality Disorder and I really enjoyed reading the information that you posted about it. I am very interested in learning more about it. How long ago were you diagnosed with it? How is it typically treated?
Sorry for all the questions--you can ignore them if you want!

Well--hopefully we'll see you later! I know how you feel though--once in a while I get too freaked out to come back for a couple of days (which is forever in Toeless land)!

Hang in there!

 

[Lost]

RBM - thanks for your post. It was very honest, and candid, and it couldn't have been easy to write. (Well, it wouldn't have been easy for me to write s/th like that.)

I don't think I was really being courageous, but thanks for the compliment! I just understood your hurt, and was surprised that nobody else seemed to, so I felt like I should try and explain it.

One more thing that my wonderful therapist has made me aware of which I think may help you: she's made me realise that I have this 'persecuted' feeling. I have this chip on my shoulder, which makes me see things as a lot worse than they often are.

Although for you it's easy to feel that everyone here is ganging up on you - I don't see that, and I don't think that that's what happened. I think, instead, that by you posting your comment to Lana, who is clearly very fondly regarded by people here, what's happened is, everyone has been trying to defend her, and make her feel better. It's not that they're AGAINST YOU, but that when someone hurts her, (and in their view, when someone unfairly hurts her,) they feel that they want to defend her. Yes, they're defending her against your post, which came from you, but it's not like David Baxter said to ThatLady one day, I really don't like RBM, let's get everyone to pick on him today!

If you continue to post here, and talk openly and honestly about yourself, and one day someone posts something to you which seems to be offensive and unprovoked, I do believe that people would stand up for you and try to defend you in the same way that they did to Lana.

In my view, that's what this site is all about, people trying their best to help people.

 

[Lost]

K - this is not the first time this happened. I saw an email alerting me to RBM's post from page 4. Then I clicked on it and responded. Then when my response went up - I saw that there had been several other responses in the meantime..!?!?!

Anyway, I don't regret what I wrote, but I don't want to sound like I'm overlooking other people's posts! Like Toelesses!

How are you doing my dear old friend?!? Thanks so much for chipping in and helping me show RBM that we're not (or the others are not) all against him. Thanks for adding some much needed positive warmth and friendliness!

And thanks for your compliments! I'm not aware of any great advice that I've given, but I won't pass up the compliment anyway, so thanks!
The only thing I think I've done is I've tried used my own experiences and feelings to explain to others what others may be feeling... It's all selfish really, coz I see the world through me me and me. He's just like me in that way. She's just like me also in a different way.. etc...

Whatever. I don't feel like loving myself much today. I had another rotten sunday yesterday. The more I become aware of my thoughts and feelings, the harder it is to ignore them and just get on with things... Sundays are now getting worse and worse.

RBM - you may be interested to know that I was one of those horrible posters who freaked Toeless out a while ago, and I made her scared to come back for a few days... But thank god she still likes me and we're friends... (right?)

Anyway, RBM I do wish I could help you feel better... Life can be soooo hard at times. I'm so sorry for you, that you have to suffer like this.
Do you have a new therapist that you could try out maybe? Or are you scared that you'll get burnt again? I wish I could think of a way to help you.
All I can say is I tried a few therapists who were useless - before I found this wonderful one, and she has really really helped me in many ways. If only you could also find a good one, they may help you find some relief...

 

[David Baxter PhD]

K - this is not the first time this happened. I saw an email alerting me to RBM's post from page 4. Then I clicked on it and responded. Then when my response went up - I saw that there had been several other responses in the meantime..!?!?!

When you click on that email link, you are taken to the first UNREAD post in the thread. Generally, you are only notified about a thread once until you visit it, so there may well be other later posts already there before you get a chance to check your email and visit the thread.

It's not that people were posting while you were replying usually (check the times on the pst to see that). It's more often the case that there were additional posts between the notification and your reply to it.

 

[Lost]

Thanks for your response. I understand.

But is there a way to make it clear that there are more posts after that one? If they're on the same page then of course you can see them, but if they're not, how would I know that more people have posted since?

 

[David Baxter PhD]

is there a way to make it clear that there are more posts after that one? If they're on the same page then of course you can see them, but if they're not, how would I know that more people have posted since?

1. Check the pagination at the bottom left of the thread, e.g., "Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] "

2. Profile | Notifications and Email | Uncheck the box next to "Receive reply notification only for the first unread reply."

 

[Lost]

ok. thanks.

 

[Peanut]

Heeey Lost!! RBM--it is a true story about Lost and I! We have had our moments and I freaked a little for a couple days but then I realized that I needed to hear what Lost was saying to me! Don't tell her this, but she can be pretty helpful sometimes.

RBM--Here at psychlinks we like to make meltdowns and freak outs extreme sports! I guess it's kind of cool though because it's the only sport that I've ever really been any good at...I've freaked so many times and had to come back and eat crow so many times that I'm starting to like the taste. Anyway, fortunately we all don't meltdown at the same time and the ones who are doing alright try to help the ones who aren't and then we trade!

But thank god she still likes me and we're friends... (right?)

Of course!!! Come on...always friends, right? Besides, I'd be crazy not to be your friend, you gave me some frank talk when I needed it the most--and I still remember every word But I have to tell you, I still have not been able to stop smiling and squirming at the therapist's office. Old habits die hard I guess! But most everything else is doing a lot better!

I wish I could think of a way to help you.

RBM that goes for me too. If you think of anything that would be helpful that we could do, just let us know. Or if you just want to talk and vent or anything like that. That's what this place is here for.

I hope you come back!

PS--Lost I do not care for Sundays one bit either. My favourite day is definitely Friday!

PSS--

pagination

I have never ever heard that word before!

OK that's really the end of this post.

 

[Lost]

Yeah, in future I have to check out the pagination, and that will indicate if the responsination from the postinisers has continued onto the next paginate or not...

Toeless, thanks so much for your kind words. It's not really that I can be helpful sometimes. I'm just an A1, Superior, Professional Butt-Kicker. I take pride in giving a Butt-Kick like no other, at a very attractive price!
(I remember every word too! See?!?)

For all your [size=10pt]Butt Kicking [/size] needs, contact Lost

Toeless, it's really great to hear from you! You've really brightened my day.
And you should know, I'm also still squirming and hair-twirling at times. In my capacity as a seasoned, experienced, professional Butt-Kicker, I'd say that squirming is a necessary part of the process.
And I am truly happy to hear that things are going better for you. Keep going girl!!! And by the way, why did you change the picture?

Sorry for my crazy funny mood right now... not quite sure what set me off... probably the pagination comment!!!

 

[RBM]

Toeless,

Basically with APD I'm rarely able to get involved with people because extreme fear of disapproval and rejection, I also feel socially inferior to them. Then of course with all this it's not hard to imagine social situations don't often go very well for me which then my hypersensitivity to criticism comes in from my DPD and so I become completely devistated and feel horrible from minor criticisms that might only slightly bother or roll off the back of others.

I know that in some ways they may seem like normal problems that everyone has. But it's the severity and consistency that makes it so hard to deal with.

I was diagnosed around five years ago. I haven't been treated much for it because I'm so scared to open up now, but I think the usual mental health treatments of drugs, cognitive therapy and even electroshock therapy.

One more thing that my wonderful therapist has made me aware of which I think may help you: she's made me realise that I have this 'persecuted' feeling. I have this chip on my shoulder, which makes me see things as a lot worse than they often are.

I can assure you it's not that for me. I get frustrated at the unfairness of the lack of support I have got(family & friends type stuff) and it upsets me greatly how people get support based on how well they are liked and not on how much they need it. I do see things for myself being really bad but it's because they are. It's just that people are so influence by the socialy skilled that a social star will get more sympathy for a hang nail then a socially inept person living thru heck.

Although for you it's easy to feel that everyone here is ganging up on you - I don't see that, and I don't think that that's what happened. I think, instead, that by you posting your comment to Lana, who is clearly very fondly regarded by people here, what's happened is, everyone has been trying to defend her, and make her feel better. It's not that they're AGAINST YOU, but that when someone hurts her, (and in their view, when someone unfairly hurts her,) they feel that they want to defend her. Yes, they're defending her against your post, which came from you, but it's not like David Baxter said to ThatLady one day, I really don't like RBM, let's get everyone to pick on him today!

Not everybody, but I have been ganged up on no doubt. I'm not saying it's planned it's just the way the posts have worked out. I let my gaurd down to make a topic and said I was very sensitive about it and when I felt I was treated in a patronizing way I did my best to stand up for myself while dealing with the points. But then I was personally attacked and still people continue to go at me. I put myself out and opened up and after a disagreement the oportunity was taken to hurt me where it really hurts. It's really brought me down these last few days.

If you continue to post here, and talk openly and honestly about yourself, and one day someone posts something to you which seems to be offensive and unprovoked, I do believe that people would stand up for you and try to defend you in the same way that they did to Lana.

I felt that happened here. There was a disagreement so I can't say it was completely unprovoked. I could see if people said nothing but there didn't seem to be a problem in blaming me. If I say nothing and get stepped on I feel like pathetic crap, if I stand up for myself I don't do it correctly and get people against me even when I feel so hurt. I don't know how to win.

I wish I was a tough person and things like this didn't bother me.

I haven't got another Therapist yet, you are right on the reason why.

 

[Peanut]

Hey RBM, I'm glad that you came back and gave us another chance!! Thanks for filling me in on Avoidant and Dependent Personality Disorders! I seriously really appreciate it and I am intrigued! So I am gathering from your posts that these are two separate conditions and you have them both along with depression (probably because of the trouble from the personality disorders)? And then they can be treated with the therapy and medication and electroshock :yikes: have you tried the meds and therapy? Although I don't know much at all about electroshock that does not seem like it would be....pleasant. I read that you had been hospitalized (I totally get why you're ticked about that too, I would be extremely upset about the loss of freedom)...so you must have been put on meds, right? And they must have not worked...? If that's the case I understand that too, as medications have never worked for me at all. What about therapy? Has anything ever helped at all? I know that you said most things made it worse and I was just kind of wondering in what way?

One thing that struck me as I read your post, especially these comments

If I say nothing and get stepped on I feel like pathetic crap, if I stand up for myself I don't do it correctly and get people against me even when I feel so hurt. I don't know how to win.

is that I wonder if APD/DPD is more difficult, in regards to that aspect, for a male than a female. You know, since males are expected to be perhaps a little more assertive, aggressive even and less needy. Maybe I'm wrong it was just a thought that occurred to me when I was reading that. I just started thinking that I bet that would be really hard for a man to have to deal with those kinds of feelings.

I think you are right though, that many, many of us have those types of inferior, insecure feelings to some extent...but with that said, I do understand that what makes yours this particular disorder is the frequency and intensity. That makes sense. But just try to remember, as I know Lost said in another post, even people who you think have it together, or have whatever you want, have their own problems.

I also want to mention that maybe we should all move past this disagreement incident and I was wondering if maybe it would help if you just started a new thread? Maybe 'Feeling Crappy 2' Then maybe it wouldn't be a constant reminder of what happened and you wouldn't feel like you need to continue fighting this battle. Of course it's totally up to you, it is just a thought. If you move threads I will go with you though.

Lost--I got a total kick out of your post!! It totally cracked me up in so many ways!! LOL!! I will be responding tomorrow! I didn't want to neglect RBM since he came back to us but I definitely will answer you tomorrow! By the way is that your real number because I do need my butt kicked about something!?! LOL-- and I took down my avatar because somebody <ahem> told me that it looked llike I was in the middle of a bunch of dirt (actually the exact words were "an expanse of soil"...now can you guess who it was? :roll: and I didn't think that sounded like a very pretty picture. Then when I got to looking at it I started thinking that it looked like I had a beard in the picture! Sadly I have to say that now that I have put the slug up......today I accidentally stepped on a slug and I think I killed it I feel really bad and now my avatar is a constant reminder of the slug homicide that I committed today

Talk to you guys in a bit

 

[Lost]

RBM, you should know, I also don't know how to win. I don't know if I have the disorders that you have but I often have the same problem.

Someone really hurts me, and I feel deeply offended. So if I stay quiet and don't take it up with them, I think I'm the biggest looser. But if I decide to argue it out, and be confrontational, I often loose myself, get carried away, and say things which I really regret. And I know that I'm not the only one who doesn't know 'how' to argue and stand up for myself. I've noticed other people make the same mistakes as me. The world is full of people who don't get on with other people, people who are very sensitive, and people who think that other people are crazy.

Even in my own marriage, I'm only now BEGINNING to learn how to argue without having an all-out guns-blazing attack. And still, 9 out of the 10 arguments I go over the top - I'm only starting to learn.

You probably suffer far more frequently from this, but to a lesser extent I think I do too. So I just want to show you that I can identify with it.

I can also understand you when you say that you're not seeing things as worse than they are, because they ARE really bad. I'm not denying that they are bad, seriously bad.

But for me, there was a time when things were just god-awful, and I was on the verge of suicide. I also don't have support from parents, my father used to hit me when I was younger, and I've learnt since joining here that I was definitely "emotionally abused". Now at least I have 2 friends who can support me, and a husband who's beginning to learn to support me too. But then I didn't have anyone. Not a single person to talk to, to befriend.

It was a terrible time in my life. Now things have improved quite a bit, although life can still be really tough. But now at least I have some much needed support. And my point is: now that I'm more emotionally healthy, and I can see myself and understand myself in a better way, I do see that I have this feeling of being persecuted. And I must have had it then too if I have it now. The word persecuted sounds a little... I dunno, maybe it's not the right word. It's having feelings like, "well, that was the worse thing that could have happened, so of course it had to happen to me." It's like waiting for bad things to happen, expecting bad things to happen, feeling like you only deserve bad things in life, and more...
I noticed it in business. I'd been wanting to do business with a certain company for a long long time. They have the most outstanding reputation, and I thought that if I get linked up with them, all my problems (in that area) would be solved, and things would run smoothly. And this company came with rave reviews from so many people. And I finally got in with them, and guess what? The first year things were great, then there was a misunderstanding and they made quite a serious mistake, and things steadily spiralled downhill. I KNOW that it was their fault, they made the initial mistake, which I had the right to be upset by, and demand compensation from. Yet, I have this underlying feeling of, "why me?!? nobody seemed to have problems with them, but of course I did." I also think that I didn't respond well to them, since I treated it like a catastrophy from the beginning, which only helped them feel more negatively towards me, which made them want to bother less, which made me feel even MORE outraged... etc.

 

[Lost]

Toeless, glad to have made you laugh!

I have to confess that I am also guilty of murder.

I was driving up quite a steep hill, and there were a few birds on the road. I slowed down so as not run it over, but when I neared it, I couldn't actually see if it had gone, or it was still there. It was a steep hill, and let's say I'm not the tallest of people... So I hoped it had gone, and continued driving...
and then...

....

and then...

I feel sick typing this...

I looked in the mirror, and saw that I'd run it over, and there were hundreds of feathers flying about behind... and there was a lump on the road...

it was HORRENDOUS!!!! I almost threw up.

And I've carried this dark secret around with me all these years...!

My first (and hopefully last!) experience of ruthlessly annihilating a poor, innocent, helpless creature...

 

[ThatLady]

Basically with APD I'm rarely able to get involved with people because extreme fear of disapproval and rejection, I also feel socially inferior to them. Then of course with all this it's not hard to imagine social situations don't often go very well for me which then my hypersensitivity to criticism comes in from my DPD and so I become completely devistated and feel horrible from minor criticisms that might only slightly bother or roll off the back of others.

I'm wondering, RBM, if it might be possible for you to use this forum as a neutral ground. In other words, come here with the understanding that here you are not socially inferior in any way. Here, you are one of us, and accepted as such. This would be sorta like a playacting experience wherein you could play the role of the person you imagine to be the ideal you. It will probably be a bit difficult at first, but I'm thinking it might help you to enter into conversations in a more relaxed way and be less afraid of being ostracized, or judged in a negative way.

This forum is full of people who have problems coping, or have had problems coping in the past. There's a lot of experience here. It might not be exactly the same experience you have had, but in many cases it was terribly traumatic for the person undergoing the experience at the time, or who is undergoing it now. If you look at it that way, you're amongst friends...people who are struggling as you are struggling, even if in different ways and at different levels. While we might not be able to stand in your shoes (only the person in the shoes knows where they pinch), we have stood in shoes that were anything but comfortable at one time or another. There's a lot of capacity for caring and understanding here, and a pot-load of really good people to share it.

I don't know if this will work for you, but it was something that occurred to me, since playacting is one of the methods I used to disable my avoidant and dependent tendencies in the past. It worked for me; albeit, it took some time to accomplish. I'm hoping it will work for you.

 

[RBM]

Toeless,

I've been on meds and all but 1 did nothing good for me. The one that did help me it was just with racing thoughts, and it had major side effects. It was nice to know It was there if I needed it but I am able to deal with it better now and can get away without taking it.

I would like to go therapy, but it's hard with my trust being broken.

I agree with you about it being harder for men, especially the dependance. There is an expectation for men to be tough and assertive. I'm not sure about Avoidance. I think some people might understand a distant/stuck up man more than a woman. Not that people with APD are that way, but it is what some people will think.

It's not that I think there are people without problems, it's that they are either less serious or they are able to deal with them better.

This is probably hard to understand but I can't figure out if I want to move on and make other posts or not. Some part of me thinks I should look at the effort people have put in to help me and try to increase my appreciation for that and look for ways to improve so I don't feel like this anymore. But the other part of me says I have put up with to much garbage my whole life, don't just take it. If someone is so callous and hurts me like this I should lash back and teach them that no one attacks me and gets away with it. I have learned I am the only one that will defend myself, people will always take advantage if I let them. But then I think I hate how the world is like that, I don't like it. Part of me wants to apologise just so I can get an apology back(ouch, that doesn't sound very good does it) and I can get back in my comfort zone of being a people pleaser. But I wonder if the wound will still sting and I'll feel pathetic about myself for being attacked and still backing down. I feel hurt, angry and guilty at the same time. Hurt and confused...not a good combo.


Lost,

Wouldn't it be cool if we could both look back on this in a few years and say wow I'm a lot better than I used to be at standing up for myself. Lets hope. The way I go about it is I almost always let other people get their way and I think, well since I've been so considerate to them they will show me it back on this rare occasion I really want something my way. But it never seems to work out that way.

I'm sorry that you had a rough upbringing and felt so terrible. I was never physically hit but I know the feelings of being unsupported. My mom was the only one that really even attempted to be there for me but she has a lot of problems to. I really can't ever see me having a friend to support me. I have had kinda friends in the past but they weren't the type of people to give support, it was just someone to do things with. I will say I was lucky with that, considering all my problems I did have some good times as a kid. I guess when you are young you don't really realise what you're up against.

I'm not sure if you are saying getting to understand that you were feeling persecuted was a good for you because it helped you understand yourself better. I really don't see it applying to me though. Yes, I am discouraged and in many ways negative about my problems but I'm just being realistic, I wish that I was making them out to be worse than they are. It's just the way things are with internal problems, you can never get away from a problem with yourself, I can only hope to improve it over time.

I read your post ThatLady but my brain is kind of exhausted I'll respond to it a bit later.

Anyway thanks for drawing me out people, that makes me feel more cared about.

 

[Lost]

<Lost beaming from ear to ear>

I'm sooo soooo sooooo happy you're feeling more cared about! That's great. Because you are cared about, and not just by me!

About the persecuted thing... It's hard for me to explain what I mean without you feeling like I'm denying what you're going through... which I'd never NEVER want to do. Your pain is your pain, and no-one else can judge it. If you want to try rereading what I wrote, you may get what I'm trying to say, if not, we can just leave it.

I've loads more to say, but got some deadlines, so hope to be back later...

 

[RBM]

I'm wondering, RBM, if it might be possible for you to use this forum as a neutral ground. In other words, come here with the understanding that here you are not socially inferior in any way. Here, you are one of us, and accepted as such. This would be sorta like a playacting experience wherein you could play the role of the person you imagine to be the ideal you. It will probably be a bit difficult at first, but I'm thinking it might help you to enter into conversations in a more relaxed way and be less afraid of being ostracized, or judged in a negative way.

I'm trying to, but my social abilities really do lack. I do feel more included here thanks to the efforts made by everyone and that has helped be be able to open up the way I have. But when I did here I was very very hurt. Now I can see that people are extending themselves to help me and it's not fair for me to do this to them but it's hard for me not to focus on the pain when it hurts so much. I know I shouldn't be like that but I've tried to pretend everything was ok in the past and that is part of what led to my depression. I will say I do feel scared to accidently offend someone and get crushed again.

This forum is full of people who have problems coping, or have had problems coping in the past. There's a lot of experience here. It might not be exactly the same experience you have had, but in many cases it was terribly traumatic for the person undergoing the experience at the time, or who is undergoing it now. If you look at it that way, you're amongst friends...people who are struggling as you are struggling, even if in different ways and at different levels. While we might not be able to stand in your shoes (only the person in the shoes knows where they pinch), we have stood in shoes that were anything but comfortable at one time or another. There's a lot of capacity for caring and understanding here, and a pot-load of really good people to share it.

That was a nice way of putting it, I agree.

I don't know if this will work for you, but it was something that occurred to me, since playacting is one of the methods I used to disable my avoidant and dependent tendencies in the past. It worked for me; albeit, it took some time to accomplish. I'm hoping it will work for you.

Do you have any examples of how a specific situation would go?


Lost,



I read what you typed closely and it's just not me. I know that I don't blame myself for my illness but a lot of people will blame themselves for their illness, maybe that is what you are seeing. It just doesn't make any sense to me, I never placed an order for a couple personality disorders when I was born. I feel bad for people that do blame themselves.