How long is too long to be in therapy?

[poss]

Hi all,

I'm feeling down about the thought of my therapy having to end one day. I know it's silly and rationally I know everything has to end, including therapy but I can't imagine ever being without my therapist. I have been seeing her for 2 years now. I am now pregnant for the second time and fear that I will spend alot of time talking about the pregnancy and my fears, which I already spent 9 months doing with my first baby! Because of that, I feel as if I haven't been focusing consistently on my issues. But on the other hand, once I've had this baby, I'll have been seeing my therapist for nearly 3 years. That sounds like a really long time. But I know I will still want to see her. I'm afraid that she'll feel as if I have been there too long or that I'll never leave and then I'll feel uncomfortable there. This is how my last therapy went wrong, because I asked her if she would tell me if she thought I had been coming too long and she then said she thought it would be a good time to finish, right there and then, in the last 5 mins of the session. I was really hurt and never got over it enough to continue therapy with her.

I guess I'm just wondering what others experiences are and how long people have been in therapy and if the therapist ever commented on the time frame?

Thanks everyone for listening. I'm getting paranoid about this.

Poss

 

[Banned]

Re: How long is too long...

Hi Poss,

I can totally understand. I used to think that too...I was quite worried about it. My therapist explained it very well to me - she basically said she wasn't going anywhere until I was ready for her to go, and as therapy progresses she will take up less and less of my time and energy, so that when the time for her to leave does come, it won't hurt because I'll be ready.

When she said that I gave her the courtesy head nod all the while thinking "But I'll NEVER be ready to live without you" but actually...I'm getting closer and closer to that point and I know it because I'm ok with it. If I was in a state of panic I would know I'm not ready to ease off but rather was being forced by one thing or another (finances, time, scheduling, etc).

So, all that to say - try not to invest the energy you should be investing into therapy, into worrying about terminating. When the time comes, if it's done properly, it will be ok. It'll still be hard, but it won't seem nearly as daunting as it does now.

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

And to answer your last question...

I've been with my current therapist for two and a half years and was with another one prior to that for two and a half years, and have just started seeing a different one...all the changes are by my choice because there are limits as to what each one can do for me. There was truly a time where I thought I could never survive without therapy, but I'm actually getting closer to being able to. I've been cutting back on my sessions, knowing I can boost them if I need to.

 

[amastie]

Re: How long is too long...

I don't know what would be the cause of your not seeing your therapist unless you no longer felt the need to see her. That's what my current psychiatrist has told me.

I've seen differennt psychiatirsts and therapists for over 30 years - my current psychiatrist for 10 years I prefer not to think that a failure but a journey that will take as long as it is required. I don't have a problem with her being away, taking holidays etc. I do find that I need her to prescribe my medication which general medical practitioners won't do so eaily here - mine are of an addictive nature and too many people try to get them prescribed to feed their addiction rather than deal with other issues so doctors are wary of prescribing them. I also know that there is no-one else, apart from my counsellor who knows me so well to help me when my issues become too much to handle.

 

[NicNak]

Re: How long is too long...

:hithere: Poss

I have been seeing my Psychiatrist for 5 years now. He has never brought up a time frame, ever.

I wouldn't put a time frame on healing. In my opinion.

 

[ladylore]

Re: How long is too long...

It may be a good idea Poss to bring this up with your therapist, especially what happened with your last therapist. It's great practice to talk about boundaries and expectations on both your parts. This can even give you a chance to clarify your own goals for therapy.

Hope this helps.

 

[Into The Light]

Re: How long is too long...

i think what you are feeling right now is very natural. i've had that feeling myself, being down about the end of therapy.

my first therapist i saw for just about a year. the last few times i saw him were spread out, we went to two weeks apart then to a month and a follow up 2 or 3 months later, so it wasn't a full year's worth. he essentially made the decision to end the therapy and it was very hard on me. it was very hurtful and i am still angry for how he handled things. i am sorry you've had to go through that too, and in fact i find it very harsh that your therapist ended things then and there right at the end of your session. ending therapy is a process in itself that needs to be worked through together, for some people it's quick (a session or two), for others it might take longer and other things surface. (see Terminating therapy - what, why, how - Psychlinks Psychology Self-Help & Mental Health Support Forum). 5 minutes at the end of a session is just ridiculous and very badly handled.

about a month after i last saw my first therapist i started with my current therapist. i've been seeing her about a year and a half now. so i've been doing this for about 2.5 years now.

not too long ago i started worrying about the end of therapy myself, but i have since come to realize just what turtle said: by the time it's time to end therapy i'll be ok with it. how do i know this? because that is the whole goal of therapy. the goal is to have dealt with our difficulties and feeling ready to face life on our own. i don't doubt i'll be sad about it because i know i'll really miss her. but i'll be okay, and i know this because i have felt more okay than i have in the past several years. as long as you don't feel okay with the idea of no therapy then you're not ready. you will hit a point where you will be okay with it. i know that's really hard to imagine and i never really could imagine it for myself. but i've had a feel of life as it should be for a while now (for the most part) and that has given me the insight that when i am ready, i'll be ready and it will be ok.

the other thing that also helps in this is that when we finish therapy it doesn't mean we're never allowed to return. should anything ever come up in your life again that you need help with you can return. i find a lot of comfort in that. my therapist will be there if i need her.

i wouldn't worry about your current pregnancy taking up "valuable time". it isn't. i've also found that certain things have brought me to therapy but then as those things are being worked on, life still continues on and other things will happen that we need support and help for. don't worry about being side tracked, it's part of the whole process.

congratulations on your pregnancy, by the way! :stork: :yahoo:

 

[Ryan Howes]

Re: How long is too long...

"How long is too long?" is a great question. I've seen this question stem from fears that:

1. I'm going to become overly-dependent on the therapist
2. I'm moving too slowly and the therapist is getting tired of me
3. If I've been in therapy this long (2 months, 2 years, etc) and I'm not well yet, will I ever get better?
4. Maybe a better therapist would have cured me by now.

Poss, your concern seems to be mostly regarding #2, so I hope you don't mind that I address all four. Frankly, someone could write pages on these topics, but I'll try to keep it relatively brief.

First, the issue of dependency. Many people are scared of becoming dependent on their therapist, and this is often equated with the amount of time they're in treatment. But dependency is about quality, not quantity. One client could have a totally enmeshed dependency after three sessions while another could spend 13 years in therapy and maintain a healthy sense of individuality. Dependency is about how the relationship functions - is the client handing over their power for decision making? Are other relationships suffering because all the client's emotional energy is going toward therapy? That's dependency. Sure, someone stuck in their dependency may stay in therapy for a longer period of time, but if the therapist is worth their salt I would hope the nature of the relationship is a primary focus of treatment. Furthermore - I believe there is such a thing as healthy dependency in therapy. Typically near the beginning of treatment, with someone in a great deal of pain or crisis, I think their being able to look to the therapist for guidance and support can be good for the client and the overall relationship. Dependency gets a bad rap in this line of work, but I think with clear boundaries and good communication it can serve the therapy very well.

For point #2, I agree with ladylore. I think it's good for therapist and client to check in regularly - at least every 4 or 5 sessions, if not more often - for a state of the union. How are we doing? How am I feeling about coming? What's frustrating me about this work? How is progress coming on my original goals? I think having this all out in the open is crucial. But there's another part of this I hear quite often: clients think I must get tired of listening to them. Now poss, I know you had an experience that seems to confirm this, but I think that has to be the exception. Therapists get into this work to listen to people and help them. Those with good training, experience and self-care should know this process takes time and requires patience. If they lack that knowledge and patience, perhaps they're in the wrong line of work. That's like a plumber getting frustrated or resentful toward leaky pipes. It's what we're trained (and some would say called) to do. I usually find this is more about the client feeling frustrated with their problems and tired of talking about the same problems. They assume I must be tired of it, too.

Point three is a bit elusive. People grow, heal and change at different rates. Everyone's story is different, and so the healing process will be different. A woman reporting depression following a divorce may feel great after 6 sessions, while a man reporting depression regarding childhood abuse may be in a deeper depression 3 years in. We just don't know. It might be good to educate yourself on your issue (there are books out there for everything) and talk with your therapist about your prognosis (whether or not, or how much relief you can expect). I find the body & psyche want to heal, and through providing the right environment and removing blockages we tend to get better. If I didn't believe it, I'd be in the wrong line of work.

And the final point, about whether or not your therapist is adequate. There are a few basics: do they have education, do they have a license, do they have experience with people like you, do you feel comfortable with him/her. With these elements in place, therapy should move along fairly well. But if it doesn't, I would hope you're discussing this in your regular state of the union talks. And if it seems you're still at an impasse, it may be time to start the termination process and start test-driving other therapists.

Well, poss, I jumped from your topic into a bunch of different yet related areas. Thanks for giving me a chance to share some thoughts and exercise my fingers. I hope you get the help you need.

 

[poss]

Re: How long is too long...

Hey,

Thanks to everyone for their support and thanks Turtle and Amastie for sharing and giving me a bit of hope about this.

ITL, what you said has reassured me a bit that one day I will be in the right place to quit therapy. Sometimes I just lose faith in the process and feel stuck and then I'll remain stuck and won't ever come out the other side.

My therapist is like a mother figure to me. I think that's why I feel so dependent and she has admitted several times to feeling motherly towards me and feeling like she wants to take care of me. Sometimes I feel like my only reason for therapy is just to hear those kind words and that I'm not really working as hard as I should, just hoping and hoping she will say those motherly things again.

Whenever I ask a question like this, I kind of know the answer is usually talk to your therapist about it, so maybe one day I'll feel able to but I don't just yet.

Thank you all, I appreciate it.

Poss

 

[amastie]

Re: How long is too long...

It may be a good idea Poss to bring this up with your therapist, especially what happened with your last therapist. It's great practice to talk about boundaries and expectations on both your parts. This can even give you a chance to clarify your own goals for therapy.

Hope this helps.

:goodposting:

Ps: Poss, you're expecting a baby! I misses that. How silly of me! My niece has just given birth to a beautiful baby boy. Congratulations. Looking forward to hearing how it goes!

amastie added 17 Minutes and 55 Seconds later...

Poss, reading your last post, I know that it is different for other people so I'm eager not to suggest that my response is necessarily the right or only response but whenever I hear a therapist express feelings that go beyond those strictly of a professional nature - such as those who say they feel motherly or want to be my friend or, worse, talk of feeling love for me, I freak well and truly and would baulk at therapy with such a person. Such sentiments, in my opinion encourage an emotional dependency that I would never want to occur. I feel blessed with my psych. who shares my achievements but does so as my psychiatrist/healer, not as my friend. But *please* know that others have said very different things and have expressed very different needs of their therapist/dr.

:hug: :support:

 

[poss]

Re: How long is too long...

Hi Amastie,

Thanks for the congrats!

And thanks for your concern. To be honest sometimes I've had this gut feeling that something isn't quite as it should be between my therapist and I and she once said to me that no matter what I say or do in our sessions, she will still love me. I did freak out when she said that, I was a bit shocked. She went on to say something like 'metaphorically speaking' but I was still taken aback.

I guess the problem is that I like to hear that she cares about me, even if I feel it may not be the right thing for me in the long-term. Rationally I feel I'm a bit trapped because of this but emotionally I crave it.

Poss

 

[amastie]

Re: How long is too long...

..she once said to me that no matter what I say or do in our sessions, she will still love me. I did freak out when she said that, I was a bit shocked. She went on to say something like 'metaphorically speaking' but I was still taken aback....

It would freak me too.

...I guess the problem is that I like to hear that she cares about me, even if I feel it may not be the right thing for me in the long-term. Rationally I feel I'm a bit trapped because of this but emotionally I crave it.

Poss,
it really concerns me that you feel trapped. That seems so unhealthy to me. Even if you receive healing from this therapist, how do you ever extricate from that need for her emotional nurturance? Would it be possible to see another therpist on the side and develop a more independent relationship with that one before feeling empowered to leave this one - *if* you do want to leave?
Whatever you choose, I fully support you because *all* of our choices are hard, not one is easy :hug: :support:

 

[poss]

Re: How long is too long...

Hey Amastie,

I have asked myself this question many times, how am I ever going to leave this therapist if I am so dependent on her like this. I saw her today and for me it was a really bad session, one where I have nothing to say, hate the silence, then hate myself and my therapist ends up trying to rescue me and encourage me not to beat myself up. Again she said that she has an overwhelming desire to really nurture me and to take me under her wing, to make all the noise in my head stop and to make everything better for me. She said that she really likes me. Then she asked me if I believed her, I said I didn't know. Is this kind of stuff really wrong? Sometimes I feel so stuck in the middle of it that I don't know what to think anymore. Strangely, all her encouragement today didn't even make me feel better. Usually it does.

Thanks for reading,

Poss

 

[Jazzey]

Re: How long is too long...

Hi Poss,

I didn't answer to this thread earlier because I'm new to therapy and didn't feel comfortable giving you advice. From some of the things that you've reported here, I would feel very uncomfortable. Instinctively, I want to tell you to find someone else, someone with whom there exists a strong professional boundary.

I don't believe that you should be mixing 'personal sentiment' with a professional relationship such as the one between therapist and client. For me at least, this would only add to my issues. I hope you at least consider seeking another opinion, from another therapist, until you can decide whether or not to continue with this one.

 

[amastie]

Re: How long is too long...

Yes, I admit, poss, that I feel as Jazzey does - that until you find a therapist with strong professional boundaries you will forever be bound to this one, not because she is helping you, but because she encourages in you an emotional investment in her nurturing you - definitely not good practiced, and *not* helpful to you in the end.

I hate to say it, but I cannot help but feel that the only way out of a hole that feels (emotionally) that it enveloping you, is to leave it. And if you need to do that without explanation (where explanation would inevitably incur more emotional manipulation) then simply ring to say something like "I'm having to take a break for a while while I do ...... " the, during that break, so someone else (preferably someone recommended to you) so that when the time has passed, you feel independent enough to say simply "Thank you, but I've chosen not to continue. In response to "Why don't you dome int to discuss it", you can say "No thanks, I'm clear about my decision (and if you feel inclined "I've found another therapist with whom I'm happy. Thank you all the same. Goodbye."
I thought that by having a word-sheet similar to that, you might find it easier to let go :thinking: But you might come upon a better word-sheet for yourself

Take very good care poss and know that our thoughts are very much with you, sending you strength and a really good feeling of self-worth :hug: :support:

 

[poss]

Re: How long is too long?

Thanks Jazzey and Amastie,

I know deep down what you're saying is right. And Amastie you are also right that any discussion with my therapist about me not feeling happy about things would probably not go down too well. I think she would either be very defensive which could potentially be very hurtful to me or else, like she said, she may manipulate me into staying.

I have thought about quitting many times and sometimes I have raised it with her and I've always felt that she didn't want me to leave. I always said that maybe I needed a break from therapy. I guess I could do the same this time and just not go back. I just feel that I really want to tell her what is making me feel like it's not working, incase maybe, just maybe she can adapt a bit and it could still work out. It feels so hard to just walk away with no explanation. She has said alot of nice, supportive things to me over the past two years and I feel very ungrateful because I have never once said anything nice to her, barely ever said that she's helping me or thanked her (except for the obvious 'thanks' at the end of each session). I feel I need to give something back in a way and I want to do that at a time when things are ok between us... I don't know, it's so hard...

Thanks again guys.

Poss

 

[amastie]

Re: How long is too long?

...I have thought about quitting many times and sometimes I have raised it with her and I've always felt that she didn't want me to leave....

Poss, have you looked closely at what you feel is the reason for seeing this therapist - is it for your sake or for hers, because if it's for her sake, it's totally the wrong reason.

...I really want to tell her what is making me feel like it's not working, incase maybe, just maybe she can adapt a bit and it could still work out....

You could try it Poss. Since it is so hard to leave anyway, it probably won't make it harder.

...It feels so hard to just walk away with no explanation. She has said alot of nice, supportive things to me over the past two years and I feel very ungrateful because I have never once said anything nice to her, barely ever said that she's helping me or thanked her (except for the obvious 'thanks' at the end of each session). I feel I need to give something back in a way and I want to do that at a time when things are ok between us... I don't know, it's so hard...
...

I'm so sorry Poss. I would feel as you do, enormously hard to leave if I felt that I owed it to her to stay and at least explain.

So explain to her Poss. And say why you feel uncomfortable. Maybe it will make a difference, but be prepared for it not to. And if it doesn't, then maybe you can say, in all sincerity, that you thank her for all that she has given you but that you really feel that you need to take a break/move on .. whichever option you feel best to say. Ideally, you could tell her the truth, that you feel that your mental stability is compromised by your emotional dependence on her, that you feel too attached to her in a way that crosses professional boundaries - but that might be too much. It would hopefully cause her to reflect on her responsibility as a professional. It shouldn't be up to the patient to do that, but depending upon how strong you feel, you might try it.

You say that the last time you saw her that even her positive statements didn't make you feel better. Maybe Poss you're reaching a point in time when you can let go :support:

 

[forgetmenot]

Re: How long is too long?

I too am new to this therapy role but i think being honest with your therapist, who is a professional is the best way to go. Maybe then she could look at her techniques as well and change them a bit so as not to do this to another person. Take care and I hope you are able to work this all out. Mary

 

[poss]

Re: How long is too long?

Thank you Mary for your thoughts

Amastie, that's interesting wording that you use, that I could tell her that my mental stability is compromised by my emotional dependence on her. That's a brilliant and tactful way of putting it and it makes it sound like I realise that it's not good for me but that it's not necessarily her fault. Thanks for that, i will definitely keep it in mind. I read something really interesting last night, which just leapt out at me as it describes perfectly what is happening to me in this therapy: (I have BPD by the way and this was from a book about psychotherapy with people with BPD)

Psychotherapy Of The Borderline Adult: A Developmental Approach by M.D. Masterson

The Directive Therapist

The other side of this therapeutic dilemma is the directive and seductive therapist who attempts to "take over" and manage the patient's life for him in a vain effort to make the patient feel that he really "loves" or "cares about" him. This creates a deadly trap for the Borderline patient who feels so deeply deprived of maternal affect and approval and is therefore so needful of such approval that he will soak it up like a dry sponge in order to "feel good". (...)

As time progresses, the patient will only indirectly note that the price he has paid for "feeling good" is the ancient and historical one of giving up his growth and development. He will begin to notice that although he enjoys seeing his therapist he is not getting any better. I have seen a number of patients who had several years of this type of "therapy" before stopping because of insufficient improvement. Even years later, after they have realized what happened, they still have high regard for the therapist who so fulfilled their very basic and infantile need to be taken care of and their wish for reunion.

The message is clear: the patient's feelings of infantile deprivation are so fundamental, so deep, and the feelings of abandonment so painful that he is willing in therapy, as he was as a child, to sacrifice anything to fulfil the fantasy of reunion while at the same time avoiding the pain of abandonment. (...) It is the cruelest of deceptions which repeats for the patient the scape-goating he received as a child from the parents: The authority figure who is supposed to and pretents to act in the patient's best interest actually is doing the patient the greatest damage.​

This is spot on what I am feeling and going through. Part of me, when I'm angry with my therapist, wants to call her on it and tell her what I think she is doing and what is going wrong but then I always stop myself because I really don't believe she knows that she is doing it and I think she is trying to go out of her way to help me by reassuring me and telling me how much she likes me. I don't think she realizes the implications. It worries me though that I can see it and it seems that she can't.

I will let you know how things go and what I decide. Thanks alot Amastie for all your support in this. I really appreciate it.

Poss

 

[amastie]

Re: How long is too long?

...I will let you know how things go and what I decide. Thanks alot Amastie for all your support in this. I really appreciate it.
Poss

By all means let us know I've been a bit quit lately but will definitely be in to check on how you are doing.
:support:

 

[cosmo]

Re: How long is too long?

The message is clear: the patient's feelings of infantile deprivation are so fundamental, so deep, and the feelings of abandonment so painful that he is willing in therapy, as he was as a child, to sacrifice anything to fulfil the fantasy of reunion while at the same time avoiding the pain of abandonment. (...) It is the cruelest of deceptions which repeats for the patient the scape-goating he received as a child from the parents: The authority figure who is supposed to and pretents to act in the patient's best interest actually is doing the patient the greatest damage.​

Interesting piece, Poss. Spot on here. I could see that my therapy was going nowhere and it was good (in retrospect!) that it has ended, though horrifically painful. This excerpt (and particularly this paragraph) was very pertinent and helpful. Thank you!

On a supportive note, I hope that you extricate yourself from this current therapeutic relationship in a way that helps you. It does sound a difficult situation, and I hope that the ending is not too painful for you.