In Too Deep

[Misha]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

RIMH... this is NOT your fault! Please don't leave. The thing about people is that they hurt us, but it is impossible to live a life without people. Leaving this forum, leaving therapy, is not going to change that. You show a desire to change, even if you are discouraged right now. And I strongly believe that you will learn ways to protect yourself emotionally that are healthy. Running isn't one of them.
Please, please... I know you dont want to give people another chance, but give yourself another chance. You deserve it.
I don't think that Doc will ban you from the site. If you choose to leave, that is your decision, but you need to know that you are always welcome and that we will never give up on you.

 

[Cavi]

Is it really love (long)

I am so mad I had a post all written out and I lost it!...I know I said I wasn't coming back but I reserve the right as a woman to change my mind

The last time I posted I said my therapist was limiting phone calls and no emails...well there was a BIG misunderstanding between us and we worked it out...I have told her several times that I love her and she has told me that she loves me...I can email her as much as I want and she has always charged for phone calls and there is no limit on them...

But I had to put a limit on them myself because I ran a $204 phone bill up and I have no clue how she came up with 20 some calls...anyways...

The following is an email she sent me when I was suicidal...Hi Jody: Life is a precious gift, and we are all so fortunate to be able to live and love in this world. Don't throw it away Jody. Reach out and hold my pinky and know you are special and loved. Friendships are a bond between people. We give each other strength and trust. Don't take that away Jody by leaving.
Doc


5 weeks ago I was suicidal on the weekend and I called her and left her a message to call me back and she did...She said she would check in later that night to see how I was doing...She called that night and said she would call in the morning and I said I would love to have you call but I already have 5 phone calls on this bill and I can't afford anymore...She acted a bit annoyed and said oh well I guess I'll have to email you them because she doesn't charge me for emails...

This past weekend I was in full crisis mode...I called and left her a message because I was out of control...Before I made the bill comment she always called me back without me even asking...This was Sat. and she never called me or emailed me because I did ask her to email...She emailed me Monday...
She knew I was out of control because of the phone message...

It hurt me that she didn't call me back, I felt like the money was more important to her than I was...My line of thought is if you love someone your there for them no matter what...Or am I being ungrateful??...Thats why I came back here to get opinions...I dont get it when someone says that a therapist shouldn't love a client...How does it relate to a teacher/student because I don't understand that either...

I guess I'm dense Help!!....RIMH

 

[Halo]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

It hurt me that she didn't call me back, I felt like the money was more important to her than I was...My line of thought is if you love someone your there for them no matter what...Or am I being ungrateful??...Thats why I came back here to get opinions...I dont get it when someone says that a therapist shouldn't love a client...How does it relate to a teacher/student because I don't understand that either...

A relationship between a therapist and a client is much different than one between two friends or a parent/child. IMO, a relationship between a therapist and client is one of trust, understanding and yes caring but definitely not love.

This of course is just my opinion but from what I see, you and your therapist have gone over the boundaries of a healthy working therapeutic relationship. I don't know a lot about transference but from what I do know, it sounds like it is happening for both of you. The lines are definitely blurred and I think that it is causing you more harm as can be evidenced by your feeling of rejection by her not calling.

Are you still seeing the other therapist as well? If so, I would really encourage you to talk to her about what is happening. She would be in an excellent position to help you with this and how you are feeling.

 

[Cavi]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

Hi Halo...No I'm not seeing the other therapist..I quit awhile ago...

 

[Halo]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

Does your therapist have a supervisor that you could speak with? I really think that you need another trained professional's opinion on the situation and it would help to have their input.

I am not saying go to the supervisor in order to get your therapist in trouble or anything but more just to talk and gain some insight into what healthy boundaries are in a therapeutic relationship.

 

[Cavi]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

Nope shes in a private practice...

 

[Halo]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

Okay, a couple of questions

Do you think that it is an unhealthy relationship that you have with your therapist?
Do you think that the therapeutic boundaries have been crossed?

If yes, then I would strongly suggest talking to your therapist about it. If no, then I am not sure what you original question is?

 

[Cavi]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

No I don't think its wrong...my original question was is it really love because she didn't call me back because of not getting paid for it.....Another words is my expectations to high?...
also the part I dont understand is......why is it wrong for a therapist to love a client?>...I honestly dont understand...........

 

[braveheart]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

It really depends, in my view, on how you define love. From a perspective of deep caring compassion [which includes 'tough love'] then all is within boundaries.
There are still some boundaries with the paying for phone 'sessions' when you're in crisis.
But a relationship with a therapist is a professional, boundaried relationship, where you work on what's troubling you, and find ways to cope and manage your symptoms. This is generally done within the weekly session/s with contact outside sessions limited to crisis situations. [like I called my therapist when my mum had a stroke and was in hospital. my therapist was out, and I didn't expect her to phone me back. but it was helpful just to reach out and to know that she knew, when she listened to her answerphone.]

To give an example of how things work in a healthy therapeutic relationship - during the early stages of my therapy, the first couple of years, my therapist would respond to emails and phone calls [which were rare, but I was very unwell when I did call or email, and it did help]. Then, gradually, over time, she would start to set limits [yes, my child self did have a few tantrums during that time, but we worked through them]. In that, it's ok for me to email in exceptional circumstances, but she doesn't respond, and she prints out a copy of my email which we talk about in the following session. That works well for me.
My therapist still cares deeply about me, and her skillful compassion is evident.
Yes, my child self wants her to be my mummy. Or my teenage self wants her to be the lover I've never had.
But we work through those fantasies, to understand me better. Ugh, yes, it's hard. But it's all part of the process.

 

[Lana]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

No I don't think its wrong...my original question was is it really love because she didn't call me back because of not getting paid for it.....Another words is my expectations to high?...
also the part I dont understand is......why is it wrong for a therapist to love a client?>...I honestly dont understand...........

Hi RIMH;
Welcome back to Psychlinks. It's good to hear from you again.

Now for your questions.

I am in agreement with Halo that the client-therapist lines in your relationship with your therapist have become blurred. However, I am not sure if if it's because of your therapist or your perception of what she's been saying to you. In any case, I suspect that you no longer see her as the therapist, but as someone that loves you. This means, you see her actions as that of a person that loves you, rather then that of a person that is treating you. It's akin to seeing a lover and a doctor as one and the same. They are not.

In Ontario, family doctors are not permitted to treat their families and are discouraged from treating their friends. Psychologists, I believe, are not to treat their family members or close friends. Basically, a line must be drawn: patient or someone significant. That is the line that you and your therapist have blurred.

If a doctor forgot to call you, I suspect you wouldn't be bent out of shape over it. But when she forgot to call you (or chose not to call you) you took it personally. THAT is a big proglem with your relationship and with a therapist claiming to love a patient. You are no longer relying on professional practices, but are fully zoned in on emotional ones. When we're emotionally harmed, our perceptions (especially emotional ones) are off. We see or feel things that are simply not there.

Does your therapist love you? I don't know. I don't know in what context she said it or what drove her to say it. She may care deeply about you as a patient. She may have a genuine desire to see you get well. She may have said it because it's what you needed. I really don't know. But the very idea that it's ALL you think about and rely on from that point on, suggests (more like, screams!) that it was the wrong thing to say.

I think you may be misperceiving her "love". It suggests that you have a strong need to be loved and have fixated on her and her words. What needs to happen, is that you need to find that love within for yourself from yourself. Because you and your therapists have crossed boundaries of objectivity, I sincerely don't think that she can achieve that with you. No matter what she does or says you will always wonder if the love is gone. An objective therapist will guide and teach you to find love within yourself for yourself. That love, can never be taken away by anyone, replaced by anyone or anything, or mimiced by anyone. THAT is the love you need to find and work on: your own for yourself.

 

[Halo]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

:goodpost:

 

[Cavi]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

Wow you both have given me alot to think about...I have been trying to back off myself, I haven't called since Tuesday (and that was to check on my appt time) but I haven't emailed her since Monday and I plan on not doing so...I will wait to have contact with her Wed...

I feel like crying since I read your post Lana because I feel like I am being blamed for the situation...There's no doubt that I've done wrong but I feel like she has done wrong also...Your post just really hit home with me.............RIMH

 

[Lana]

Re: In Too Deep (Update)

Hi RIMH;

I'm glad that you're now able to understand the problem with therapist loving a client. I am sorry if that upsets you, but it really isn't in your best interest.

You haven't done anything wrong, sweetie. What you're experiencing is THE problem that happens when the therapist crosses those set boundaries. THAT's what's wrong with a therapist loving and voicing that love to a vlunerable client. Powers and control become uneven and when things don't pan out the way one or the other expects, the client feels (wrongly, might I add) at fault.

It is not your fault, RIMH. But this is the reason why we urge you to see someone else. The very idea that you need help but feel you should hold out is wrong. You wouldn't hesitate to call your physician or 911 if something was wrong, would you? And you shouldn't have to with your therapist. But, again, that line has been blurred and now you wonder if you have to pull back, give space, not seem needy, and so on....because of fear of loosing that love. All those thoughts cut off one of (what's supposed to be) your primary support and do not add to your well being. While she may love you, she can no longer treat you properly because of your feelings on the matter and her own. This is the problem that comes up when objectivity is lost.

I'd strongly encourage you to contact your other therapist and go see her to help you deal with all this. I know it's a lot to swallow. But this is the only way I knew to answer your questions on why the relationship you have with your current therapist is wrong.

:hug:

 

[Cavi]

Most Amazing Thing Happened Wed.

I had a session Wed. with my reg T and we had alot of fun in session, we laughed and joked around it was great...But after session wasn't so great...We came out of the therapy room and I saw K sitting there waiting for me and I pulled back and thought I don't want to go home with her...I haven't wrote much about K in a long time but its coming to the point where I hate her...But I was in the hospital last week and I'm not able to drive yet...

Anyway K started talking to my T and I started shaking...I have what my ex T called emotional seizures...anyway thoughts started racing through my head and the seizures affect my walking and I went to leave and my legs wouldn't work right so my T went to reach for me and so did K at the same time, well I didn't want K anywhere near me so I pulled away and said I was fine in a stern voice...

I made my way to the car and K and I pulled away, we got to the stop sign and I had a full blown emotional seizure...K being K and not having any common sense just sat there asking what was wrong and when I have these it affects my speech and all I could get out was Doc....K is the type of person where I could be dying and unable to answer her and she would ask me if she should call 911...

Anyways the seizure was really getting ahold of me so after sitting there for 5 minutes K asked if I wanted to go back to my T and I couldn't get anything out...Finally K backed up and went to my T she went in and my T's sister came out to the car the minute Nancy got near me the seizure hit even harder, so she went in and got my T...My T came out and started talking to me and asked my if it was K and I nodded yes and she said ok let her take you home...My T was rubbing my back and talking to me in a gentle voice and when the seizure lightened up some I rested my head on her arm and she pulled me close and told me she loved me and than gently kissed me on top of my head a couple of times....

After what seemed like forever the seizure stopped and my T held me for awhile and than said she was going to go and for me to let K take me home...
By the way my T was standing in the rain!...I've had severe insomnia going on 2 weeks they have me on Ambien but its not working in the past 5 days I've had 12 hours of sleep total........It was sooooooooo amazing what my T did!!..........RIMH

 

[Cavi]

I know you guys probably wish I would disappear but I need to write this out....This last incident with my T has caused MAJOR problems for me...I have not told my other T what is going on because I am afraid to and no-one else knows whats going on other than this board......When it first happened I was ok with it but now she's gone to a place inside of me that should of never been touched...I tried to pull back this weekend but I am so far into this that pulling back hurts way to much.......Honestly, now I wished it never happened because of all the problems it has caused for me.....I know you guys warned me but when you've never had someone truly love you its hard to not reject it when its so freely given...I am just scared whats going to happen to me because I am getting desperate....But if I leave her god only knows whats going to happen to my sanity....I've been breaking down alot lately and I am afraid one of these times I won't come back from it...I am just plain scared..............RIMH

 

[David Baxter PhD]

RIMH, the very first thing you need to do is to get in to see your other therapist and talk to him/her about what has been going on. S/he will help you work through this and disentangle yourself from what was a dangerous situation from the beginning.

 

[Cavi]

BUt how do I tell her that the person we've been talking about is my therapist?...I'm not sure of anything right now...........RIMH

 

[Into The Light]

does she know you are seeing another therapist?

 

[David Baxter PhD]

You've just done it here, RIMH. Print off this thread if it helps, or just tell her what you've told us.

Just spit it out.

 

[Cavi]

No she doesn't...I have started to tell her and than stopped........RIMH