My ongoing therapy dilemma

[gooblax]

Yeah that's true.
Kind of viewing myself as a bit of a failure though. Now this'll be two professional talking people with whom I don't talk correctly... assuming we don't count the female therapist who thought I might have ASD (Asperger's at the time) because of the way I spoke with her.
:facepalm:

 

[Daniel E.]

If you aren't in a frame of mind to see yourself positively, then maybe you can suspend judgment

https://albertellis.org/coulda-woulda-shoulda/

Constantly looking back only makes it harder to move forward...

Live your life perfectly, do everything you’ve ever wanted to do, and never experience regret, right? That’s a good solution, except for the small fact that it’s virtually impossible...

You’re still the same person. No more. No less.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Also

Overcoming Fear of Emotional Vulnerability

Brené Brown: Vulnerability, Guilt, and Shame

 

[Daniel E.]

Is it possible part of you didn't want to mention your therapist, as a way of already moving on? In other words, the brain as a committee where there are multiple, conflicting agendas/desires.

 

[gooblax]

Is it possible part of you didn't want to mention your therapist, as a way of already moving on? In other words, the brain as a committee where there are multiple, conflicting agendas/desires.

I don't think so. It was more like "oh ok I guess we can talk about this for a bit... Or um, a bit longer... Ok how many questions do you have about this... This is going to be fantastic (not) when my therapist asks if we came up with any ideas for managing stuff when we didn't even get to it... Ok he's not going to drop this, maybe I can raise it now when there's 15mins left... But that seems a bit short to raise a new topic... But it'll be worse if I don't raise it... Is this a pause? Can I maybe just slip it in here? Oh nope, too late... Ok next one. But it's got nothing to do with what we're talking about, it's not like I can just casually change the topic in the last 10 minutes. How the hell are we here in the last 10 minutes and we haven't even got to my number one point?! This is ridiculous, same problem as always. Lucky I'm not as emotionally invested here or I'd have another damn freakout... Come on, at least pay attention to what he's saying, something about neural pathways with negative thoughts about myself, ah yes, those... Wtf is wrong with me that I can't just say "hey can we talk about this other thing for a bit?" I mean obviously I can't do that NOW but I could have say, 30 mins ago when I first noticed we weren't circling back around? Or even 15 mins ago. Or at literally any other damn point?... Oh wait what, he's asking me what I want to get out of sessions with him? At the END of the session?! Wtf sort of timing is that?! Quick, say the two points. Oh good, managed to say point two in a confusing way. Yeah fair enough you need an example of point two after that mess. Still not a good explanation but at least it was something and maybe a way to address this specific instance. Maybe if I'd got to this EARLIER I would've had more of a chance to explain. I guess at least we did sort of get to this so all is not lost. Pity about POINT ONE being my most important thing though. I guess next time. In a month. Fan-f***ing-tastic once again."

 

[Daniel E.]

Were you more comfortable with the EAP counselor? She seemed to almost demand a problem up front, though only a single one?

 

[gooblax]

I dunno. The first session with this guy was more focused than the second.

If it were a second session with the EAP counsellor it would've been different only because my first session with her was about strategies for talking to my therapist to fix things - and so I had told her that I have trouble bringing things up and with getting back on track and would like to do an initial agenda list plus regular checkins to keep on track. So I assume she would've implemented that with me if it were a second session.

Whereas with this counsellor the first session was about "I might have to leave my therapist because it seems to be doing more harm than good despite my attempts to fix things, but leaving feels absolutely devastating and maybe there's still a way to fix it ... Help?" So we focused on that in the first session and what might be causing the excessive distress and didn't touch on the practicalities of the communication problem. Then perhaps because I started the second session saying that for now I've decided to keep seeing my therapist with a strategy for being "more likeable" in session, he might have thought it was less of a pressing concern now and to go from there to "how does having problems with your therapist affect your other relationships" and then treebranch off elsewhere. In hindsight I should have added the two points to the end of my answer at the start of the session about how things had gone between sessions (ie. xyz is how it went and I've decided abc AND I would like your help with 1&2 to support this decision), and then I'm sure we'd have discussed them. But the way I did it they just didn't have a way to come up.

 

[Daniel E.]

I have had therapists who assume almost nothing. They stare at you at the start of each session, as if they are a blank slate again and do not smile at the beginning for that would break a kind of neutral openness. On the opposite spectrum are those who "keep the frame" and just seem to assume nothing happened in the last week/weeks of any import.

Sent from my LM-Q720 using Tapatalk

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I have had therapists who assume almost nothing. They stare at you at the start of each session, as if they are a blank slate again and do not smile at the beginning for that would break a kind of neutral openness. On the opposite spectrum are those who "keep the frame" and just seem to assume nothing happened in the last week/weeks of any import.

I don't like the stare thing. That's a Freudian / Analytical technique that just makes me uncomfortable.

The best way to open a session, in my option, is with an an open question, like "How are you doing?" or "How have you been since we last talked?" or just "How are you?", followed by a pause which lets me announce what is most on my mind at that moment.
@gooblax, maybe an email to those therapists with my suggestion would help.

 

[gooblax]

I have had therapists who assume almost nothing. They stare at you at the start of each session, as if they are a blank slate again and do not smile at the beginning for that would break a kind of neutral openness. On the opposite spectrum are those who "keep the frame" and just seem to assume nothing happened in the last week/weeks of any import.

I don't think I'd like either of those. The first would definitely activate my overactive "they don't like me, don't care about me, don't want me here, don't think I need to be here, I should **** off and stop complaining and being a weak pathetic loser" narrative... which that sort of technique would never gratify with any sort of reassurance and I'd get myself into even more of a mess. The second, we'd get onto a treebranch and from session to session they'd just continue the treebranch until we're out on a leaf on the opposite side of the tree to where I wanted to be... which would (naturally :facepalm mean to me that "my leaf doesn't matter, only this other leaf matters and for me to care about my leaf makes me a weak pathetic loser, and this person obviously thinks this which is why they only want to talk about this other leaf. I'm sure other people get to talk about their other leaves, it's just that my leaves aren't important so that's why I shouldn't want to talk about mine, I need to figure out a way to drop all my leaves and never grow any more. But I don't know how to do that without either not going near anyone ever again to show them my worthless leaves or for the tree to die so those are the only options."

The best way to open a session, in my option, is with an an open question, like "How are you doing?" or "How have you been since we last talked?" or just "How are you?", followed by a pause which lets me announce what is most on my mind at that moment.
@gooblax, maybe an email to those therapists with my suggestion would help.

Hmmmm my brain takes the "how are you" and spits out a "yeah I'm alright" end-of-topic sort of answer. It's either a greeting where you give surface level info depending on your relationship with the person... or it's literally "how are you right this second" or... I dunno. I hadn't considered it as a way to bring up other stuff.
Like "How are you?" "I've been thinking about xyz" - that's not an answer to the question.

My regular therapist usually does ask a "how are you" or similar but... I mean, how I am is too many things at once. I'm usually:

• pleased to see him after looking forward to the session since a few days after the last one, but obviously I shouldn't be looking forward to it that much because that's being dependent and a massive weirdo;
• nervous about talking to him for whatever reason, especially when there's a problem we need to sort out;
• upset and frustrated about something if there's been a problem (to varying degrees);
• eager to try talking about certain things but worried about being a weak pathetic loser;
• apprehensive about whether we're going to run into another problem;
• feeling a bit better and more ready for the session after playing some music OR not feeling better after playing some music which indicates that I really am stressed about something that's going to happen in the session rather than just feeling regular nervousness about it;
• either glad that my working week has been going well, or feeling like work is way too draining and I'll have to quit or something because I just can't keep doing it;
• glad that the work day is over and so regardless of what else is going on that's always a positive thing.

So all of the above = "yeah alright, how're you?" I'd have to pre-plan any other sort of answer and I'm not sure how to really twist it into a "what I'd like to talk about during the session" answer.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

How about, "What's on your mind today?" or "What's on the agenda today?"

If you want to stay with your current therapist, it's very clear by now that you're going to need to train him in how to help you. And it seems what makes or breaks a session is what happens in the first few minutes so that's where you need to start, in my opinion.

 

[gooblax]

Yeah those would likely be easier (especially matching up with my propensity for making a topic list).

You're probably right, in that if it goes off track later in the session then it's not as bad as starting on the wrong track at the outset.

 

[Daniel E.]

If you want to stay with your current therapist, it's very clear by now that you're going to need to train him in how to help you.

I would prefer the term supervise

But seriously, another bad experience with therapy (that resulted in the person being done with therapy entirely):

https://narratively.com/the-most-offensive-thing-my-therapist-ever-said-to-me/

So I did it. I left therapy, I left my job, I left my boyfriend.

All I had was me, now. Maybe my therapist’s mistake was the best lesson I could ever learn.

 

[Daniel E.]

4 Big Reasons Why Treatment Falls Short

...Sometimes there seems to be nothing wrong, except for the strong and uncertain conviction that something must be or is wrong. Then the question becomes difficult, as there may be no answer, other than to put aside such questions and get on with the business of changing. When "why" gets in the way of "how," it's a good idea to slow down and get a bit meta, asking: How am I approaching this problem, how am I working with other people to optimize change, what are my underlying associations and beliefs about healing, what is my relationship with myself, what haven't we thought of that may be helpful, and related questions...

 

[Daniel E.]

either glad that my working week has been going well, or feeling like work is way too draining and I'll have to quit or something because I just can't keep doing it;

I know with OCD, depression, anxiety, and other disorders, anything can be harder because one is often ruminating/worrying/obsessing/dreading about something while trying to do a task. And that can be quite draining, even for basic tasks. OTOH, work can be a positive distraction when it doesn't provide too many stressors.

Regarding work stressors:

https://www.cigna.com/individuals-families/health-wellness/work-anxiety

You can experience work anxiety at any job and it can be brought on by several causes:

• You’re without the resources necessary to do your job effectively
• You’re in a toxic work environment that is led by an abusive boss or co-worker
• You’re underemployed and/or underpaid
• You dislike the industry you’re working in
• You feel trapped in the very job that is causing you work anxiety
• You lack the skills or knowledge necessary to do your job effectively.

 

[gooblax]

But seriously, another bad experience with therapy (that resulted in the person being done with therapy entirely):

I probably should just do the same re therapists, bf, forums and not speak to anyone again because I'm a weak pathetic piece of ****

 

[Daniel E.]

I did not mean to click like. I posted that as a way to see some therapists as arrogant or overassuming since you seem to blame yourself quite often.

Though I have felt the same way, being done with people in general would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. But I would be done with paying people who seem to be as triggering as helpful.

Here, it is practically free to see a psychiatrist with most insurance. And many of them provide some form of counseling during visits. My brother sometimes sees his psychiatrist as often as some people see a therapist.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I probably should just do the same re therapists, bf, forums and not speak to anyone again because I'm a weak pathetic piece of ****

That's simply not true.

That's an old repetitive very destructive script that keeps running through your mind but it's simply NOT true.

 

[Daniel E.]

I have found the posts by @Cat Dancer quite helpful in regard to her struggle with chronic self-downing.

 

[Daniel E.]

Incidentally, the author of that article did not become a hermit-for-life and also married someone later on: https://narratively.com/the-end-of-jdate-or-the-most-bitter-essay-on-dating-youll-ever-read/