Some problems can't be solved directly, anyway -- at least, not easily. So an indirect approach may work better.
- Thread starter gooblax
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gooblax
MVP
How can it be ok not to decide on this? There's only one correct decision and I just can't do it. I'm going to have to ask my therapist not to let me book another session with him. I'm a ****ed up mistake.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
I didn't say you don't have to decide this - eventually.
I said you don't have to decide this today.
When I have a difficult or complicated decision to make, I often find that relegating it to "background processing" helps and creates less anxiety/stress for me. (That's a computer processing term I invented for myself.)
I and my brain are aware that the issue or decision hasn't yet been made and will eventually need to be made but it's pushed out of the forefront of my mind into a background process that runs as long as it needs to.
In Freudian terms, that's a bit like pushing it from the conscious mind into the subconscious.
I said you don't have to decide this today.
When I have a difficult or complicated decision to make, I often find that relegating it to "background processing" helps and creates less anxiety/stress for me. (That's a computer processing term I invented for myself.)
I and my brain are aware that the issue or decision hasn't yet been made and will eventually need to be made but it's pushed out of the forefront of my mind into a background process that runs as long as it needs to.
In Freudian terms, that's a bit like pushing it from the conscious mind into the subconscious.
gooblax
MVP
I don't think it makes sense to put this in the background though. Reality is that I'm too pathetic to fix myself via therapy or other means so I should stop inflicting my disgustingness on anyone. Obviously since I still want my therapist to disagree, even though he shouldn't, I can't email and will have to tell him to stop seeing me in the next appointment.
Disgustingness isn't dormant so the response shouldn't be either. If I can get myself banned from places where I can get away with it including here then maybe I'll be able to do the right thing.
Disgustingness isn't dormant so the response shouldn't be either. If I can get myself banned from places where I can get away with it including here then maybe I'll be able to do the right thing.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Wow. You are in full self-loathing mode today, @gooblax. 
You need to get outside and shift that. Go for a walk or a bike ride. You’re not doing yourself any good by dwelling in self-hatred.
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You need to get outside and shift that. Go for a walk or a bike ride. You’re not doing yourself any good by dwelling in self-hatred.
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Reminds me of the phrase in AA: "You can never get enough of what you don't need."
gooblax
MVP
Eventually managed to go for a short bike ride after trying to get back to sleep and a detour of sitting miserably on the floor. Then I had to go get groceries for next week even if nothing feels worthwhile. It would have been impossible to make basil chicken stirfry with no basil, whereas now with the basil it only seems impossible.
It's ok as long as I don't think about the situation. I lasted most of the day without thinking about it but it's come back this afternoon.
It's ok as long as I don't think about the situation. I lasted most of the day without thinking about it but it's come back this afternoon.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Trying to keep busy and physically active will help. Even playing a video game counts.
What's "Emotional Reasoning" -- And Why Is It Such a Problem?
... In instances like these, conventional CBT remedies don’t (and can’t) go deep enough into your psyche to resolve such discrepancies. They act only as band-aids, fated over time to peel off and “re-expose” irrationally negative deductions about self and others (as in, “Regardless of all my successes, I still somehow feel defective—so how could I possibly be as competent, or worthwhile, as you keep telling me I am?”)...
What gets stuck somewhere in the unconscious is ancient self-protective programming. And typically these once essential defenses were “birthed” by something felt to be extremely threatening. Isolated and more or less fixated, these fragments of self are highly resistant to change. Rather than growing up, or “maturing,” along with you, they stayed behind to caution you about anything that felt similar to what, back then, was experienced as traumatic...
It's your still unhealed child self--who suffered the immense hurt of not feeling wanted, valued, or accepted--that engendered your skepticism, so it must be you yourself (i.e., the adult you) that reaches out to that much younger, suspicious part. Can you empathize with that child, validate its "reasonable" doubts, sympathize with its fears, and only then attempt to convince it--with evidence beyond its years--that its biases (though totally understandable) no longer jibe with reality. In short, effectively reassuring the child is an inside job. And it can't be accomplished till you've managed to emotionally access that younger part of you who "owns" this no longer appropriate, or adaptive, program...
... In instances like these, conventional CBT remedies don’t (and can’t) go deep enough into your psyche to resolve such discrepancies. They act only as band-aids, fated over time to peel off and “re-expose” irrationally negative deductions about self and others (as in, “Regardless of all my successes, I still somehow feel defective—so how could I possibly be as competent, or worthwhile, as you keep telling me I am?”)...
What gets stuck somewhere in the unconscious is ancient self-protective programming. And typically these once essential defenses were “birthed” by something felt to be extremely threatening. Isolated and more or less fixated, these fragments of self are highly resistant to change. Rather than growing up, or “maturing,” along with you, they stayed behind to caution you about anything that felt similar to what, back then, was experienced as traumatic...
It's your still unhealed child self--who suffered the immense hurt of not feeling wanted, valued, or accepted--that engendered your skepticism, so it must be you yourself (i.e., the adult you) that reaches out to that much younger, suspicious part. Can you empathize with that child, validate its "reasonable" doubts, sympathize with its fears, and only then attempt to convince it--with evidence beyond its years--that its biases (though totally understandable) no longer jibe with reality. In short, effectively reassuring the child is an inside job. And it can't be accomplished till you've managed to emotionally access that younger part of you who "owns" this no longer appropriate, or adaptive, program...
Even playing a video game counts.
They use virtual reality gaming for burn patients. So I sometimes wish I was a gamer for my OCD, haha. I do think everyday computer use will be more active in the future, e.g. doing computer tasks using smartglasses while walking the dog.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
It will at least help people who walk on crosswalks looking at their phone
gooblax
MVP
This morning's bike ride to work was also helpful.
When I think about the stuff from the counselling session, I'm trying to remember that I have already told my therapist about how I feel about him and the overly-attached nature of my problem, and he said he didn't see it in the way that I did (ie. as repulsive, disgusting, weak)... So I might be able to assume his opinion would be that it's not necessary for me to stop seeing him or punish myself.
Nor did the counsellor seem to see it like that, as his suggestions related to continuing to work with both of them to help me reduce the problem, rather than mentioning anything about punishment for having the problem.
But it's not easy for me to believe that I shouldn't be punished for it.
Most of the time when I think about "inner child" stuff, I think about punching it repeatedly in the face. I don't really know what the deal is there but any other approach seems dangerous somehow.
I have a new challenge related to work - picking up a new laptop from a nearby site. The road between here and there seems scary for cycling, with plenty of trucks and no shoulder on the road (just drops off to gravel). So I'd really rather not ride my bike. I could take my normal cycling route then double back to avoid the worst of it, but then there's a right hand turn (noting that we drive/ride on the left hand side) that I don't want to make. Otherwise I could get the bus part of the way there and walk the rest... But then what do I do with my bike? Or ride part way, lock my bike against a fence, then walk the rest, which might be my best option.
Also some days are raining - not the best for carrying a laptop, or cycling, or walking through dusty/muddy areas. If I have to get the bus then I'd prefer that to be a day I couldn't ride my bike anyway... But that means getting wet and muddy while walking.
I ended up just saying my preference for an afternoon and not raining day. Can sort the transport out later.
When I think about the stuff from the counselling session, I'm trying to remember that I have already told my therapist about how I feel about him and the overly-attached nature of my problem, and he said he didn't see it in the way that I did (ie. as repulsive, disgusting, weak)... So I might be able to assume his opinion would be that it's not necessary for me to stop seeing him or punish myself.
Nor did the counsellor seem to see it like that, as his suggestions related to continuing to work with both of them to help me reduce the problem, rather than mentioning anything about punishment for having the problem.
But it's not easy for me to believe that I shouldn't be punished for it.
Most of the time when I think about "inner child" stuff, I think about punching it repeatedly in the face. I don't really know what the deal is there but any other approach seems dangerous somehow.
I have a new challenge related to work - picking up a new laptop from a nearby site. The road between here and there seems scary for cycling, with plenty of trucks and no shoulder on the road (just drops off to gravel). So I'd really rather not ride my bike. I could take my normal cycling route then double back to avoid the worst of it, but then there's a right hand turn (noting that we drive/ride on the left hand side) that I don't want to make. Otherwise I could get the bus part of the way there and walk the rest... But then what do I do with my bike? Or ride part way, lock my bike against a fence, then walk the rest, which might be my best option.
Also some days are raining - not the best for carrying a laptop, or cycling, or walking through dusty/muddy areas. If I have to get the bus then I'd prefer that to be a day I couldn't ride my bike anyway... But that means getting wet and muddy while walking.
I ended up just saying my preference for an afternoon and not raining day. Can sort the transport out later.
gooblax
MVP
Smart glasses would at least be a little less dangerous than the current way I play pokemon go. Had to catch a few dozen Drifloon between bouts of rain and incited a magpie attack.
Another metaphor for the inner child is the "reactive mind" or "monkey mind" in mindfulness as opposed to the "wise mind," etc.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
In other words, a more reflexive "lower brain" or brainstem reaction with less influence from the higher cortex.
gooblax
MVP
I'm even less of a fan of the DBT terms. They just seem insulting to me.
This is more palatable even though I know it means the same thing. Or something like "biological response" or "nervous system response" or "conditioned response" even.
gooblax
MVP
All this just goes to show I was right all along. I never deserved "help" and my stuff is all fake bullshit to get away with not trying.
I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time for so long.
I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time for so long.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
No. You were not right all along and you're still not right about the self-incrimination and self-loathing.
It's not fake bullshit at all.
It's not about not trying.
You're not wasting anyone's time.
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