David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Thank you.
- Thread starter gooblax
- Start date
gooblax
MVP
Maybe it's time to hit pause with counsellor and go back to just seeing the psych.
gooblax
MVP
Cause I don't need someone stumbling into painful stuff and leaving me to handle it.
Hmmm.....maybe a goal of therapy (with anyone) could be emotion regulation? That is an inherent goal in third-wave behavior therapies like DBT as well as traditional CBT.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
I think the key point @gooblax might be making here is "stumbling into" something and "leaving me to handle it".
It's a bit like being ambushed by the therapist choosing and/or insisting on a topic or issue when you're not ready to deal with that yet or when you have something else that at the moment is more pressing or demanding than the issue the therapist has chosen or "stumbled into".
I fired a therapist several years ago for doing that to me.
Good Lord. So both the therapist and counselor suck?
Or is the therapist now better than the counselor?
Personally, I usually feel better after therapy, not worse, since I feel less alone with my issues, not more alone.
I did fire only one therapist and that was early this year. He assumed too much without being nurturing or validating or whatever.
Or is the therapist now better than the counselor?
Personally, I usually feel better after therapy, not worse, since I feel less alone with my issues, not more alone.
I did fire only one therapist and that was early this year. He assumed too much without being nurturing or validating or whatever.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
That's not impossible. I have found that most people who make a career out of EAP counseling are not very knowledgeable or competent - and I say that having worked under contract to a couple of EAP organizations at one point. The pay is poor, the amount of paperwork is ridiculous, and the restrictions on things like number of sessions you can provide and only addressing one specific issue which can be resolved within a specified time frame are ludicrous and not usually in the best interests of the client. Those who have other options like private practice (because they are more skilled or better trained) generally do not stay with EAP firms so the ones left behind remain because they aren't skilled enough to have other options.
I don't doubt that there may be exceptions to that rule but that's based on my personal experience and on my professional observations over a lot of years. Not to mention that seeing clients who had previously tried EAP counseling I was often struck by how dismally bad was the advice they were given by the EAP counselor.
And of course we are already aware that there are some issues with the therapist.
That said, I don't know the situation in Australia. I do know that there are many parts of the world where the options are rather limited.
I don't doubt that there may be exceptions to that rule but that's based on my personal experience and on my professional observations over a lot of years. Not to mention that seeing clients who had previously tried EAP counseling I was often struck by how dismally bad was the advice they were given by the EAP counselor.
And of course we are already aware that there are some issues with the therapist.
That said, I don't know the situation in Australia. I do know that there are many parts of the world where the options are rather limited.
Have you heard of this @gooblax?
gooblax
MVP
So we were talking about how I think sessions with my psych go better when I don't have any expectations about wanting something in particular from him, then who else I've felt that way about. I mentioned the guy from highschool. Counsellor connected the dots between me mentioning him in our first session and now, then went down that rabbit hole.
He has a very psychoeducational style so it meant that he decided to talk about emotional trauma, loss, putting things in a box and locking it up for awhile, dissociation, some really bad situations that have caused people to dissociate "not to minimise your experience" ie. that story about the woman who experienced thousands of instances of sexual abuse from multiple people when she was a child, dissociated and wasn't consciously aware of any of it as she grew up and had started a successful career as a lawyer until it came back after some investigation when her husband noticed her having dissociative episodes... A story I'd previously had to put up with my mum telling me as well.
I clammed up for most of the session once he'd got started. A couple of times I said some stuff we were literally talking at the same time (he'd paused then started to continue) but he'd stop and let me say the thing.
I really just should have called a time out but I'm not good at realising when I need to do that. Doesn't help that on video it's probably harder to tell when I've checked out of the conversation.
I'm not seeing him through EAP. I picked him because he was on a list of people who had done some specific training that I thought would be relevant ("childhood emotional neglect" by Dr Jonice Webb) . He's got about 6yrs experience as a counsellor.
On the plus side, I don't typically feel that nervous about talking to him or bringing things up, and it doesn't matter much to me how he feels about me etc. and I wouldn't be that sad if I never saw him again. On the negative side, there's a limit to how much usefulness I'm getting from 'explaining monologues', it's difficult for me to tell him when he's got the wrong end of the stick (eg. last session l finally started course correcting his idea about what my psych helped me with to cut back spending so much time online with my bf... His idea was around me being addicted to spending time with him. Reality was that for years I've felt obligated and didn't want to upset my bf by telling him I don't want to spend time with him.)... I don't know if he's any worse at noticing when I've checked out and he's monologuing than my psych was, but my psych hasn't gone into that trap for quite a while now.
He has a very psychoeducational style so it meant that he decided to talk about emotional trauma, loss, putting things in a box and locking it up for awhile, dissociation, some really bad situations that have caused people to dissociate "not to minimise your experience" ie. that story about the woman who experienced thousands of instances of sexual abuse from multiple people when she was a child, dissociated and wasn't consciously aware of any of it as she grew up and had started a successful career as a lawyer until it came back after some investigation when her husband noticed her having dissociative episodes... A story I'd previously had to put up with my mum telling me as well.
I clammed up for most of the session once he'd got started. A couple of times I said some stuff we were literally talking at the same time (he'd paused then started to continue) but he'd stop and let me say the thing.
I really just should have called a time out but I'm not good at realising when I need to do that. Doesn't help that on video it's probably harder to tell when I've checked out of the conversation.
I'm not seeing him through EAP. I picked him because he was on a list of people who had done some specific training that I thought would be relevant ("childhood emotional neglect" by Dr Jonice Webb) . He's got about 6yrs experience as a counsellor.
On the plus side, I don't typically feel that nervous about talking to him or bringing things up, and it doesn't matter much to me how he feels about me etc. and I wouldn't be that sad if I never saw him again. On the negative side, there's a limit to how much usefulness I'm getting from 'explaining monologues', it's difficult for me to tell him when he's got the wrong end of the stick (eg. last session l finally started course correcting his idea about what my psych helped me with to cut back spending so much time online with my bf... His idea was around me being addicted to spending time with him. Reality was that for years I've felt obligated and didn't want to upset my bf by telling him I don't want to spend time with him.)... I don't know if he's any worse at noticing when I've checked out and he's monologuing than my psych was, but my psych hasn't gone into that trap for quite a while now.
gooblax
MVP
The points that he was making (between the excessive explaining /storytelling) were valid though.
But at the end he's like ok you can put this back in the box if you want... But I wasn't the one to really pull it out and chuck it around. I just mentioned it briefly because it pertained to the question.
But at the end he's like ok you can put this back in the box if you want... But I wasn't the one to really pull it out and chuck it around. I just mentioned it briefly because it pertained to the question.
So you currently get more empathy from the therapist than the counselor?
It does remind me again of the point made by David Burns that many therapists would be shocked at how low their scores would be for empathy if their clients graded them.
It does remind me again of the point made by David Burns that many therapists would be shocked at how low their scores would be for empathy if their clients graded them.
gooblax
MVP
Yeah. Counsellor's empathy seems to be either saying "wow" to something I've said (and then writing on his piece of paper), or explaining how something makes sense. I don't get much of an 'emotional connection' there but it's certainly safer having him at arms length than what was happening with my psych.
With my psych, he's typically really good at settling things down when I get upset with things as long as I let him know. He's a bit better at reading my "tells" now compared to before.
It's tricky though cause it's not like I sit there going "I feel sad about X". Moreso I sit there trying not to show that I'm feeling anything, except for when I can't help but show it.
When I was having problems with psych and telling counsellor about it, I was more visibly upset and maybe felt a bit more of a connection amongst the "wow" writing.
Dunno.
gooblax
MVP
I can't decide whether to ask psych if we can do an in person session next month.
They reopened borders and mum texted me about booking flights within 30mins of the announcement.
Psych has been doing mostly online appointments still, but some house visits.
Problem 1: I likely won't meet his criteria for a house visit, whatever those criteria are.
Problem 2: It's not even my house so there's extra COVID risks from the other people. Plus dunno if my family's dog is an issue although I'd plan to keep her outside while psych was there and discuss that with him first.
Problem 3: Difficult to predict when mum will go to work because she's a casual and just about picks her own house some days. Sometimes she doesn't go to work until 1pm, sometimes she gets home at like 4:30pm. So that would be my window for having a session at my parents' house (in person or on video although there's a bit more flexibility with video).
Problem 4: I don't want to accidentally spread COVID to my psych if I pick it up somewhere eg. on the plane.
Problem 5: Seems like it would be weird to see him in a different location like that and I don't know if I like the idea of it overall.
Problem 6: Even if the reasons for not doing it are logical and completely make sense, I can tell that I'll have strong emotional reactivity to it if/when he says no. So it might be better not to ask.
If I do ask, I'm going to preface by saying I don't want to discuss reasons /details if it's a no.
They reopened borders and mum texted me about booking flights within 30mins of the announcement.
Psych has been doing mostly online appointments still, but some house visits.
Problem 1: I likely won't meet his criteria for a house visit, whatever those criteria are.
Problem 2: It's not even my house so there's extra COVID risks from the other people. Plus dunno if my family's dog is an issue although I'd plan to keep her outside while psych was there and discuss that with him first.
Problem 3: Difficult to predict when mum will go to work because she's a casual and just about picks her own house some days. Sometimes she doesn't go to work until 1pm, sometimes she gets home at like 4:30pm. So that would be my window for having a session at my parents' house (in person or on video although there's a bit more flexibility with video).
Problem 4: I don't want to accidentally spread COVID to my psych if I pick it up somewhere eg. on the plane.
Problem 5: Seems like it would be weird to see him in a different location like that and I don't know if I like the idea of it overall.
Problem 6: Even if the reasons for not doing it are logical and completely make sense, I can tell that I'll have strong emotional reactivity to it if/when he says no. So it might be better not to ask.
If I do ask, I'm going to preface by saying I don't want to discuss reasons /details if it's a no.
gooblax
MVP
Yeah, my state has had 76 days without community transmission but there's still sewage findings. I'm not super comfortable about having to sit in close quarters with random strangers for a couple of hours. I suspect most people won't be wearing masks as its never been mandatory in this state. If I could drive there I'd do that instead.
I can think of plenty of valid reasons for a no, but I don't think any of them will 'help' to know. The least helpful ones would be anything about how his current house-visit clients are different from me. Any info of that nature would mess with my head I don't know that it would prevent generating conspiracy theories.
For example, say he only does house visits for agoraphobic clients who don't have visitors. Immediate mental response is "see, I don't have real problems that are worth getting help for, I don't deserve to see him" and away I go on the slippery slide.
I can think of plenty of valid reasons for a no, but I don't think any of them will 'help' to know. The least helpful ones would be anything about how his current house-visit clients are different from me. Any info of that nature would mess with my head I don't know that it would prevent generating conspiracy theories.
For example, say he only does house visits for agoraphobic clients who don't have visitors. Immediate mental response is "see, I don't have real problems that are worth getting help for, I don't deserve to see him" and away I go on the slippery slide.
Thanks for explaining in detail.
I used to be a "I see it my way only" type. (like most people) I think the forum has played a big part in seeking to see and try to understand things in the other person's perspective. I can easily relate to the fear of rejection but personally I'd go bonkers not knowing why. Same issue and yet 2 totally different perspectives and reactions.
I used to be a "I see it my way only" type. (like most people) I think the forum has played a big part in seeking to see and try to understand things in the other person's perspective. I can easily relate to the fear of rejection but personally I'd go bonkers not knowing why. Same issue and yet 2 totally different perspectives and reactions.
gooblax
MVP
Well you've helped me realise that I'll probably go bonkers either way 
So I guess I do need to discuss it in greater detail with him than just "if no, let's go straight to the next topic". :facepalm:
So I guess I do need to discuss it in greater detail with him than just "if no, let's go straight to the next topic". :facepalm:
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