My ongoing therapy dilemma

[Daniel E.]

I'd hoped that talking to my psych about it would help but I don't know if it did. I mentioned all the "not real problems" "worth less than other clients" stuffA that I think and think he thinks too and asked if he thinks it's worth it for me to continue. He said yes he thinks it's worth it and that I do deserve help in dealing with my 'inner critic' but I don't believe him. He'll probably turn around 2 seconds later and prove that he didn't mean that. All I wanted to do was listen to the mean punishing thoughts.

It seems, in the big picture, that most of your distress is from "uncertainitis," i.e. intolerance of uncertainty. So you try different things to cope (reassurance, rumination, etc.) and then you feel better (for a little while), and then the cycle repeats itself.

Does it ever seem this way to you--that you have a more underlying issue involving uncertainty?

If you don't agree with me, I'll just have to post more Youtube videos

 

[Daniel E.]

Of course, there's also other reasons people have problems with insecurity, including the inherent complexity in relationships and, at least in America, the culture of narcissism/individualism that can only increase feelings of insecurity in others, especially among HSPs.

But it's hard to "grow" if anxiety pumps the brakes on everything or makes it harder to change one's environment.

Like in evolution, organisms can adapt in a number of ways -- without necessarily having to change all that much. "You don't have to be perfectly adapted to survive, you just have to be as well adapted as your competitors"

 

[gooblax]

It seems, in the big picture, that most of your distress is from "uncertainitis," i.e. intolerance of uncertainty. So you try different things to cope (reassurance, rumination, etc.) and then you feel better (for a little while), and then the cycle repeats itself.

Does it ever seem this way to you--that you have a more underlying issue involving uncertainty?

Not really, not for this at least.
To me it's more like - having based my childhood sense of self around not having negative feelings (which were weak vs. me being tough by not having them) and being in an environment where negative feelings were invalidated/shamed/comparisoned-away (i.e. XYZ has it worse so don't feel the way you do)... I believe that everyone operates to the same set of criteria. And from the moment I stopped being able to keep my negative feelings under wraps, I became this inferior weak useless thing that I just can't stop being. And the more I tell anyone about things, the more they see how inferior weak and useless I am under the one and only way of measuring people in one of two ways that matter - strength and accomplishment. Then my psychologist - who is unfortunately a very important person to me - seeing me as weak and pathetic and therefore dislikeable/disgusting is just ****ing heartbreaking yet I still shouldn't be feeling like that because it just makes matters worse and perpetuates the cycle.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Not really, not for this at least.
To me it's more like - having based my childhood sense of self around not having negative feelings (which were weak vs. me being tough by not having them) and being in an environment where negative feelings were invalidated/shamed/comparisoned-away (i.e. XYZ has it worse so don't feel the way you do)... I believe that everyone operates to the same set of criteria. And from the moment I stopped being able to keep my negative feelings under wraps, I became this inferior weak useless thing that I just can't stop being. And the more I tell anyone about things, the more they see how inferior weak and useless I am under the one and only way of measuring people in one of two ways that matter - strength and accomplishment. Then my psychologist - who is unfortunately a very important person to me - seeing me as weak and pathetic and therefore dislikeable/disgusting is just ****ing heartbreaking yet I still shouldn't be feeling like that because it just makes matters worse and perpetuates the cycle.

But you're aware that all of that is distorted thinking, correct?

 

[gooblax]

That's what you might call it. My psych might call it the inner critic or a habit. Counsellor might've called it the effects of CEN (from here). To me it just seems like it has to be true because nothing else really makes sense.

 

[Daniel E.]

Incidentally, even people who know they have OCD or anxiety (in other words, an overactive amygdala, etc) often don't realize that their chronic, recurring feelings of guilt (or sadness, loneliness, anger, apathy, or emptiness) are maintained by the OCD or anxiety or whatever. And, even with some insight, it can be very hard not to compulsively ruminate as a way to temporarily avoid such unwanted feelings, which helps keep the intolerance to unwanted feelings going.

In any case, whatever intervention is done for mental health, it is, of course, a long-term, lifelong process -- day by day, week by week, year by year -- e.g. "baby steps."

 

[Daniel E.]

Counsellor might've called it the effects of CEN (from here). To me it just seems like it has to be true because nothing else really makes sense.

There are a lot of schools of thought in psychology. That's part of the reason I love it so much -- it's endless But there is a lot of overlap as well, with most schools of thought being largely reducible to a combination of a few categories like psychodynamic, behavioral, etc.

That website you mentioned talks a lot about boundaries, which is an issue most people with anxiety have.

From an article David posted:

Boundaries for Highly Sensitive People: the yes, the no, the confusion

When you see things for what they are, boundaries are easy. When you don't see things for what they are, boundaries are very confusing and very difficult.

This is why, when I work with clients on boundaries, a lot of the work on boundaries revolves around helping you understand what you are feeling, what you are wanting and when you are hitting your limits.

That means exploring what is really going on (and learning how to do that) Not: repeating what you were taught your were supposed to feel.

 

[Daniel E.]

Why Don't Therapists Talk More About Emotional Neglect? | Dr. Jonice Webb

I am not trying to call attention to what most good therapists primarily focus on: what happened to their clients in childhood, like trauma and abuse. I'm trying to get therapists to pay more attention to the vital thing that failed to happen for the child: enough emotional responsiveness. It's not that it's a brand new concept; it's that it gets overlooked far too often. Calling it CEN is a way to give this under-addressed, yet damaging experience a common name that we can all use to finally talk about it clearly with our clients and each other..

These are the people who remember a "happy" childhood (because we don't remember a parent's failure to act), but who are struggling. These are the people my book is about because they fall between the cracks.

 

[Daniel E.]

Emotional Neglect Questionnaire

Do You...

1. Sometimes feel like you don’t belong when with your family or friends ?

2. Pride yourself on not relying upon others ?

3. Have difficulty asking for help ?

4. Have friends or family who complain that you are aloof or distant ?

5. Feel you have not met your potential in life ?

6. Often just want to be left alone ?

7. Secretly feel that you may be a fraud ?

8. Tend to feel uncomfortable in social situations ?

9. Often feel disappointed with, or angry at, yourself ?

10. Judge yourself more harshly than you judge others ?

11. Compare yourself to others and often find yourself sadly lacking?

12. Find it easier to love animals than people ?

13. Often feel irritable or unhappy for no apparent reason?

14. Have trouble knowing what you’re feeling ?

15. Have trouble identifying your strengths and weaknesses?

16. Sometimes feel like you’re on the outside looking in ?

17. Believe you’re one of those people who could easily live as a hermit ?

18. Have trouble calming yourself ?

19. Feel there’s something holding you back from being present in the moment?

20. At times feel empty inside ?

21. Secretly feel there’s something wrong with you ?

22. Struggle with self-discipline ?

Look back over your YES answers. These answers give you a window into the areas in which you may have experienced Emotional Neglect as a child. The more questions you answered "Yes", the more likely CEN has affected your life.

 

[Daniel E.]

But even for meds, psychiatrists don't need a definite diagnosis since they are treating symptoms too.

And, of course, "Childhood Emotional Neglect" is not a recognized condition in psychiatry, especially. But that construct is helpful for some people to make sense of things and provide much-needed validation -- not unlike HSP. I think the treatment though is usually the same for a lot of people, e.g. self-acceptance, stronger boundaries, taking thoughts less seriously, exercise, psych meds, etc. That is why CBT, ACT, DBT, etc can work for a variety of conditions, with some modification.

More popular/researched screenings:

Screening Tools | Anxiety and Depression Association of America, ADAA

Take a mental health test | MHA Screening - Mental Health America

Autism Spectrum Quotient (AQ)

 

[Daniel E.]

Growing Down: Tools for Healing the Inner Child - Re-Parenting

Dr. David Burns on treatment for low self esteem , Tip#1 Defense is NOT the best Offense! - Feeling Good Institute "Defense is not the best offense. Acceptance is."

The website of David D. Burns, MD | Self-Acceptanceâ€"Are We All Defective? | Feeling Good "Healthy acceptance is characterized by joy, intimacy, laughter, and creativity. In contrast, unhealthy acceptance is characterized by cynicism, depression, hopelessness, and loneliness."

Pitfalls of Perfectionism

 

[gooblax]

The thing that appeals to me about Dr Jonice Webb's CEN approach, aside from the fact that I can usually answer yes to all of the criteria questions, is that I find it very validating. It takes my "well I didn't experience some awful thing so I have no right to feel negatively about anything, suck it up, stop being a baby etc." and tries to get in there with "what I have experienced is enough to explain how I feel, it makes sense, and it's OK to want help with this." It doesn't work all the time, or even most of the time, because "pffft that's stupid, what a loser crying over spilled milk" but it's the most effective thing I've found to date. And without that sort of validation, I don't think any form of therapy technique is going to get anywhere with me because I'll just sabotage it the moment I start invalidating myself.

That's why when I was looking for a different therapist I used the list on her website as a starting point. But counsellor came at it with too much validation of things somewhat by assumption and activated the "no that's pathetic" but didn't leave much room for discussion.

While psych was responding to me about whether he thought I should continue, I could only half listen to him because I kept getting thoughts telling me to go harm myself, and that I need to quit and **** off and then he won't care what I do to myself after that. He says he thinks this is the closest I've been to being able to challenge the 'critic' and to believing that I deserve better. I wish I'd recorded what else he'd said because it's hard to pay attention when I'm caught up in that stuff.

 

[Daniel E.]

Part of the problem of self-help, in general, is that it's easy to blame the victim because of the way these things are marketed. It seems just do a few easy steps and you are no longer an irrational/human being after a few weeks/months. The reality is that you can't turn off the more primitive parts of the brain -- or else you wouldn't be able to even move (as in e-motion).

I mean, if someone reads a book by David Burns, you would think most of them would be working overtime for non profits because they feel so great -- the way he markets his "feeling great" books. That is why I am liking third-wave/mindfulness-based therapies since there is no goal of being able to defeat the inner critic but rather just change one's relationship to it.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Great posts here but I am unable to Like or Thank any posts for the past couple of days. Anyone else having this problem?

 

[Daniel E.]

Yes. I will give you a thumbs up instead

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Hmmm... this is very old software at this point and it's starting to show its age. I may have to try and find the money for an upgrade...

 

[gooblax]

Apparently I haven't tried to like or thank a post in days... But yep I also have the same problem.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Thanks. At least now I know it's not just me.

 

[Daniel E.]

Apparently I haven't tried to like or thank a post in days...

Then you obviously haven't been to the Canadian "humour" thread :canadian:

 

[gooblax]

Then you obviously haven't been to the Canadian "humour" thread :canadian:

Sorry :canadian: