My ongoing therapy dilemma

[gooblax]

Seeing other people's struggles just reminds me that mine are nothing and I don't deserve help for them,and never have. There's someone on another forum who probably overdosed tonight because there were no beds in the emergency department and their psychologist couldn't get them admitted to hospital. Once upon a time I'd have at least tried to say something supportive to them before my selfish thoughts took over but now I don't even get that far. I just think all the quitting thoughts whenever I see someone hurting - quit therapy, quit whining, quit life because I'm pathetic and don't deserve help and deserve punishment for wanting it. And selfish to boot.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Seeing other people's struggles just reminds me that mine are nothing and I don't deserve help for them,and never have. There's someone on another forum who probably overdosed tonight because there were no beds in the emergency department and their psychologist couldn't get them admitted to hospital. Once upon a time I'd have at least tried to say something supportive to them before my selfish thoughts took over but now I don't even get that far. I just think all the quitting thoughts whenever I see someone hurting - quit therapy, quit whining, quit life because I'm pathetic and don't deserve help and deserve punishment for wanting it. And selfish to boot.

No. No. No.

None of that is true.

Right now I am being treated for a serious illness (not COVID-19 but still serious). The side effects of the treatment are not fun but all indications are that the treatment is working very well and that I can expect a full recovery.

Others with the same or similar illnesses are not as lucky and indeed may not survive the illness.

• Does that mean that I don't deserve treatment?
• Does that mean I am pathetic for wanting treatment?
• Does that mean on days when the side-effects are bad that I don't deserve to feel a little sorry for myself or withdraw from other people?

No. Of course not.

What I am dealing with has nothing to do with what other people are dealing with, or whether others are worse off or better off than me.

I do my best to keep a mental "gratitude journal" to remind myself frequently that I still have a lot of good things in my life. I do that because it helps me cope. Actually it helps a LOT.

So I can be grateful for the good, positive things in my life.

That doesn't mean I have to be happy all the time or that I can't still wish I didn't have to deal with the negatives or that I'm not allowed to mourn or grieve the losses I have experienced in my life. Or the injustices I have experienced.

We're all allowed to be human. We don't really have a choice. That doesn't make us worthless or undeserving.

All it means is that life can be very challenging and sometimes we cope with those challenges better than at other times.

 

[gooblax]

I'm glad to hear that your treatment has been working.

My first instinct is to "yeah but" the whole thing. No one can be sure that my 'problems' are legitimate and I should be better than that.

I think it's likely that as a kid my negative emotions may have been responded to with a lot of comparison to other people and pointing out why I shouldn't feel that way. I dunno. I do know that thinking that stuff makes things worse but also maybe I deserve for it to be worse for not seeing it that way from the beginning.

Knowing now that I'm stuck at my parents house when my next session is scheduled in about 3 weeks, my parents will arrive home from work mid way through the session. They don't have a webcam so I'd be on my phone unless I get one. So I have to figure something out for that too and maybe it would be best to just pull the plug.

 

[Daniel E.]

"I do know that thinking that stuff makes things worse but also maybe I deserve for it to be worse for not seeing it that way from the beginning."

When I regret things from years ago or even 5 minutes ago, I sometimes remind myself that I am not the same person. The self/psyche -- like its environment -- is always learning/changing. You can't step into the same river twice...

 

[gooblax]

Having trouble focusing on work yesterday and today because I keep thinking about my psychologist and therapy stuff. I miss him (which is disgusting but for the moment I'll pretend that it's ok) but thankfully not as much as usual - I think possibly because sessions have felt better, it's easier to feel better and more relaxed about where he and I are at, what he thinks about me etc.

As far as sessions go, since the session after last August's problem I've been able to mostly stick with practical topics and have been more communicative with him. I'm not sure what to attribute it to.

In part it's because I want to keep having sessions with him that feel more connecting and there's things I can consciously do to make that happen (ie. topic selection, trying to make sure I feel good about talking to him right before the session, making sure I've got some positive things to talk about, not having preconceived ideas about wanting him to help me feel better about anything... Considering him more like an acquaintance but whom I happen to be able to say stuff to without consequence)... Aka "being more likeable".

Another part is that I just don't care as much what I say to him. I typically don't feel so nervous seeing him. Maybe a self reinforcing cycle (things go well so I don't get as nervous so things go well...). Maybe knowing how close I came to quitting with him and how much the whole thing hurt it's just become a "screw it, who cares anymore" thing or '"well if it's hurt that much then what could be worse" thing (except I do still very much care what he thinks of me so I dunno about that theory). Maybe the fact that he saw me so upset after that issue, and if he could handle that OK without making it worse then maybe it's OK to say things.

I dunno. It might be tempting to just say "well it's good now, no need to analyse why" but I'm wary of just considering it a good thing given that it happened after a big problem. Inadvertently ending up with a very upset client - and concluding that if the situation were to arise again the exact same thing would occur - hardly seems like a great way to improve rapport.

We briefly discussed whether I'd finished with the counsellor and I told him I still want the safety net. He started saying something about "if" another rupture happens but I quickly cut him off to let him know it's a "when" not an "if". Which is why I don't think we're on the same page about why things are good now, if he can't see that there's no way it could possibly be an "if".

 

[Daniel E.]

Does your therapist seem more like []Fred Rogers [/[wiki]] (a gentle soul) or more like Dr. Phil (arrogant)?[/wiki]

 

[gooblax]

Does your therapist seem more like []Fred Rogers [/[wiki]] (a gentle soul) or more like Dr. Phil (arrogant)?[/wiki]

[wiki]
Neither really. I can't think of a TV (or internet) personality that I'd compare my psych to. If that were a scale, he'd be a bit closer to the Dr. Phil side but he doesn't come out saying Dr. Phil-ish things. He's more like an everyday bloke - friendly enough, a bit competitive and cocky and a bit thick when it comes to being emotionally sensitive until it's glaring him right in the face.

In comparison, counsellor was as if an enthusiastic scientist (who's super interested in theories and studies and information) was trying to play Mr. Rogers but kept slipping out of character.[/wiki]

 

[northern barbarian]

Seeing other people's struggles just reminds me that mine are nothing and I don't deserve help for them,and never have. There's someone on another forum who probably overdosed tonight because there were no beds in the emergency department and their psychologist couldn't get them admitted to hospital. Once upon a time I'd have at least tried to say something supportive to them before my selfish thoughts took over but now I don't even get that far. I just think all the quitting thoughts whenever I see someone hurting - quit therapy, quit whining, quit life because I'm pathetic and don't deserve help and deserve punishment for wanting it. And selfish to boot.

David is right. I often think that I don't deserve help too, that I deserve only punishment for... for... many things. But David Baxter's words are logical, there are no paradoxes or fallacies in his words.
And you know, I started to think that maybe even such a person as me deserve to get some help!
There are people who chose as their life's work helping others. And they help different kinds of people.
What can I add? I don't have special education, my words can be full of emotions and I can only state my subjective vision. Yet, even though I think that my problems scarsely more serious than yours, I have some experience, I guess.
To tell the truth, I often act selfish. I rarely say something supportive to people who needs that.
But if you don't do that, that doesn't mean that you are a bad person. You may be consumed with your own problem, you suffer, your energy is spending on that. You want it to be stopped, like when you feel pain, all you thoughts attach to that. It is a natural reaction. Which means you need help and you should think of how to help yourself at first.
About struggle. Do you know what I did to improve my situation? Almost nothing, I've been to a psych just once, and that's it. Still, I think that I deserve help. And you are definetely deserve it.

I do hope that you will be thinking of yourself better.
I don't think that you are a bad person.
And I hope I wasn't clumsy, I didn't mean to make things worse. Sorry if I stated many obvious things.
Take care.

 

[gooblax]

Thanks @northern barbarian for your thoughts and for taking the time to respond.
I'm glad to hear that you think you deserve help. That's more than half the battle for some of us. I hope you get the help you need. Maybe a second appointment with a psychologist?

 

[northern barbarian]

Yes, I will think of it. But I won't go to the same psychologist, anyway (it's just personal stuff, like her appearence).
And there is one more thing, I don't have beleif enough that psychologist might help me. I believe in therapy, I am glad that it helps people, but I have doubt regarding myself.
Also, I have doubts that I have serious problems, certain diagnosis, I just tend to be hysterical sometimes and I have lack of will. I think I exaggerated my problems when I described them on this site half and a year ago.

Right now I am concerned more about changing the job. I try to learn programming, if I have energy for that, then I am not that depressed. And I think programming helps me in some way.

We all should stick to the things that help us.

Thanks for suggestion and reply!

 

[gooblax]

I'm having another "don't deserve help" 'episode'. How is it that anyone believes that their feelings matter when there's always someone else that has it worse?

 

[northern barbarian]

I'm having another "don't deserve help" 'episode'. How is it that anyone believes that their feelings matter when there's always someone else that has it worse?

I think that if help can be provided it should be provided by qualified specialists, and the sooner, the better. To any person who needs that.
We all have different problems, for someone changing style of life might be enough, someone needs therapy.
Everybody, absolutely everyody has rights. Right to recieve help is one of them.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I'm having another "don't deserve help" 'episode'. How is it that anyone believes that their feelings matter when there's always someone else that has it worse?

It is pointless to compare yourself to anyone else on the scale of who has it better and who has it worse. If you're unhappy with your life or struggling with issues in your life, you deserve help. Lots of people who you would probably judge to be not as bad are receiving help just as lots of people who you would judge to be in very bad shape are also receiving help.

Ultimately, it's a meaningless comparison.

Think of it in terms of the current pandemic. There is a range of severity of symptoms among those infected. Some are extremely ill and when there is a shortage of medical professionals and or hospital beds, patients are triaged to ensure that those with the most severe symptoms are given priority. But that doesn't mean that the others are ignored. Anyone with active symptoms and in need of treatment is given treatment, just not necessarily in an ICU or even in hospital.

 

[Daniel E.]

A rehash of my armchair wanna-be theories:

Sounds like rationalizing one's existing preference to avoid unwanted emotions.

Or simply another episode of engaging in one's "feared story" (a term for obsession in ACT) as a way to avoid a more generic uncertainty.

In any case, a helpful behavioral response is usually opposite action, etc.

 

[Daniel E.]

Anxieties.com | Free Short Educational Videos

The First Tasks in Overcoming Anxiety, Panic, Worry, and OCD - YouTube
Our minds are worry-making machines. They are logic-making machines. The Disorders tend to take advantage of all of that. To win your life back, you need to “Step Back.” First, step back to take on a new perspective – “Why in the world is this happening to me?” Second, step back to decide, “Is this worry a signal or noise?” Third, step back from your content as soon as possible. Then learn to step back in the moment of your fear.

How Anxiety Uses Basic Human Nature Against You - YouTube
It makes totally good sense that if you experience a threat, your mind and body will move into a defensive stance, just as it would if you suddenly saw a snake on the path as you are walking. If you have developed an anxiety disorder – whether it’s panic disorder or social anxiety, performance anxiety, health worry, or a phobia – the disorder will take advantage of that traumatic moment. OCD will take advantage of it, too. What will it take for you to get stronger? Eventually, you will need to put your limbic system’s amygdala in a safe, reasonable facsimile of the traumatic event, and let it hang out.

Why You Should Step AWAY from Your Worries - YouTube
Of course, your phobia or obsession or anxious worry is about something specific that frightens you. But in order to treat the anxiety disorders and OCD, you have to learn to rise above the specific topic that you fear so that you can treat the disorder itself. You’re going to hear about Mary, who worried about suffocating on a plane or having a heart attack or being crushed by the ceiling of a parking garage. If she wants to recover from her claustrophobia, then she has to downgrade those specific worries. She needs to decide that even though she feels as though she is going to suffocate, her job is to turn away from that specific fear. In the same way, work to make your content – your specific worry, your topic – irrelevant. Your job? It is to face a generic sense of doubt and a generic sense of distress.

Why You DONT Need to Relax to Get Control - YouTube
This work requires that you change your focus of attention. Whether you have performance anxiety or panic attacks or OCD, your worried voice is going to be generating questions like, “Am I getting too anxious?” “Am I going to embarrass myself?” “Did I make a terrible mistake?” Your job is to move your attention here: “I’m willing to feel awkward, clumsy, insecure, unsure, embarrassed… as I learn to get stronger.” Learn to detach from the message of, “I gotta get rid of this!” Provocative as it seems, develop a voice that can say, “I want this.” Remember: If you want to overcome a trauma, then you need to step into a safe, reasonable facsimile of your trauma and let your amygdala hang out.

How to Transform Fear - YouTube
The goal is to step forward, voluntarily and purposely, toward your fear – whether it is worry or a phobia, performance anxiety, fear of panic symptoms or the obsessions of OCD. And, most importantly, step forward with ATTITUDE. When you step toward your fearful circumstance, you’ll become anxious. And then, in the face of your fear, pull up a positive emotion (crazy, right?). Know why you are generating your feelings of threat: because you can see how voluntarily stepping forward fits into the broader context of your life’s goals. In other words, activate a competing emotion to your fear – “Good. I want this. I’m working to get stronger now.” – that expresses a competing point of view. Think of this as modifying your neurology of fear. Neurons that fire together, wire together. Over time, then, your work will become easier.

 

[Daniel E.]

Anxieties.com | The Noise in Your Head 6-episode series

Episode 1 - - YouTube
When Anxiety generates unhelpful worries and obsessions – we’ll call them “noise” – then Anxiety becomes a cunning and persuasive challenger. To take him on, you’ll need an outcome picture, grit, trust and courage.

Episode 2 - - YouTube
Anxiety wants to drag you down into the content of your worries. Don’t get sucked into content! Instead, try living with doubt and uncertainty. You could even start to welcome the uncertainty. Crazy, right?

Episode 3 - - YouTube
You must go toward the stuff that scares you, but action is not enough. Willingly choose to feel awkward, uncomfortable, and unsure. Talk to yourself! Give yourself instructions and motivating messages that help you purposely seek out what you want to avoid.


Episode 4 - - YouTube
Ignore Anxiety’s messages as you move toward your task. If that doesn’t work, then try this on for size: Ask Anxiety to give you more of the thoughts and feelings that are scaring you. And then, as always, just turn your attention back to your task.

Episode 5 - - YouTube
The game is simple: Score points against Anxiety and begin to win your life back.

Episode 6 - - YouTube
For all of us, Anxiety is here to stay. Sometimes it can be incredibly helpful, signaling something worthy of our attention. And the rest of the time? Well, the rest is just noise. It’s time to leave the noise behind. Learn more about how to stop the noise at NoiseInYourHead.com

 

[Daniel E.]

The bad acting in the second series of videos is part of the exposure therapy

 

[Daniel E.]

A rehash of my armchair wanna-be theories:

Sounds like rationalizing one's existing preference to avoid unwanted emotions.

Or simply another episode of engaging in one's "feared story" (a term for obsession in ACT) as a way to avoid a more generic uncertainty.

And these things are not conscious/intentional, of course--just how anxiety takes on a life of its own over time, especially with culture's stigma against mental illness and other cultural factors as well. So the end result--what always happens--is that one's coping mechanisms become one's worst enemy, including the coping mechanism of discounting the positive. But it doesn't seem that way because these coping mechanisms do work--in the "chronic short term." That's why it helps to account for everything you are missing out on by maintaining the status quo (the rock-bottom approach):

Why you suffer (more than you have to)


There are activities you would engage in if it weren’t for your pain. That expands the role pain has played in your life.

And not participating in these activities creates even more pain.

You get pain on top of pain, and that is not a bad definition of suffering.

Not only must you deal with the immediate pain of your thoughts, feelings, and physical ailments, you also must deal with the pain caused by the fact that your pain prevents you from living the kind of life you want to live.

The more you live your life trying to avoid the pain of fear, depression, and anxiety, the more extra pain you get on top.

The reality is that there are always therapists who have open slots. It's a business and many of them need more customers. My current therapist is cash only, so he always has slots available

Or to put it in New Age terms that your mother would approve of: you are manifesting lack rather than abundance

 

[Daniel E.]

I'm having another "don't deserve help" 'episode'. How is it that anyone believes that their feelings matter when there's always someone else that has it worse?

The litmus test I like for a lot of things is "Would you tell that to a friend?"

So would you tell a friend they don't deserve help? Not only is the answer no, but you would not even think of telling another person that.

 

[gooblax]

I'd hoped that talking to my psych about it would help but I don't know if it did. I mentioned all the "not real problems" "worth less than other clients" stuff that I think and think he thinks too and asked if he thinks it's worth it for me to continue. He said yes he thinks it's worth it and that I do deserve help in dealing with my 'inner critic' but I don't believe him. He'll probably turn around 2 seconds later and prove that he didn't mean that. All I wanted to do was listen to the mean punishing thoughts.