Question about backseat drivers & therapy

[Ryan Howes]

I'm putting together a short blog series (for my blog) about the interaction between clients in therapy and their loved ones. If you can help out, I'd really appreciate it! It's not just for selfish reasons, I think it will be interesting reading for everyone.

I may quote you in my post if your response illustrates one of my points. I can't really offer you anything but my sincere thanks and a big plug for PsychLinks.

So here are my questions. Answer one or both, your choice:

1. Do you have any experience with a friend or family member who second guessed/asked too much about/tried to control your therapy? What happened and how did you handle it?

2. If you've known a friend or family member who was in therapy, what did you do? Did you ask about their therapy or leave it alone? What if you disagreed with what the therapist told them? What did you really say about that?

I'm going to gather these up and post my blog the week of Sept 7th, 2009 but feel free to chime in anytime. Thanks!

 

[Jazzey]

I'd be happy to answer these questions Dr. Howes. Although I'll warn you, I can't always hide my anger about it all . In fact, I'll even suggest to you that I may be using you here, to let go of some of my resentment.

Question 1:
I started therapy for the first time in my life September 2008, following a violent rape in August 2008. Each one of my family members (except one brother) spent the vast majority of the time telling me that I did not need therapy. Here are some of the reasons which were expressed:

1. WHile I may have been raped, it's not as if I were a teenager (I was 38), I can get over this on my own. The best thing I could do was to get out there dating again. Maybe online dating would be a good start? (she bought me a computer);

2. Everyone knows that psychologists are only there to try and flip the blame on the mother;

3. what next, is the psychologist going to try and convince you that you were sexually abused as a child?;

3.Throughout the process, my mother in particular wanted all the details of those sessions (to the point that I was expected to call her after each session to recount the session). By October, she suggested that I'd spent enough money already and that I should already be over the rape.

4. If I shared even a snippet of my sessions with her, she would tell me that my psychologist was an idiot - even she, who is not a psychologist, could tell me that it takes time to recover from some things. And, on the grand scheme of things, it's not as if I were a virgin here. And therefore, my psychologist was making this into a bigger deal than it need be. The psychologist was aiding me in staying in the 'victim' role.

5. By december, when the psychologist recommended I start taking anti-depressants, my mother got angry and told me that this was yet another form of brain washing. A means to take away any kind of reasoning that I may have for myself about what happened.

6. By January, I stopped talking to her about my sessions, and didn't disclose that I was taking anti-depressants.

Finally, since then she tells me that she knows that I'm lying to her. That I'm seeing a psychologist and that the psychologist is probably telling me to stay away from my own mother. She's asked me to limit my sessions strictly on the rape and not disclose family secrets. She's also repeatedly told me that, on some level, I probably wanted to sleep with this person (it was an acquaintance) and that if I didn't tell this to my psychologist, I wasn't being honest. She's also tried to get me to reconcile with the rapist (a family member) with whom she continues to have contact. And she's frequently ask "you're not still thinking about all this stuff? It's so long ago now"...As far as she's concerned, I ceased therapy back in January / February.

As for the remainder of the family, I don't hear from them anymore about this issue.

So my solution in all of this - I've lied. I'm carrying on normally with my life, I no longer care about the rape, I would never dream of taking anti-depressants because I'm strong and don't need them.

Sorry for the Rant Dr. Howe.

As for your second question. I don't have friends who are currently in therapy. But from my side of the fence (in therapy) I sometimes share snippets of the sessions, only because I think that there are gems which come out of them and, which I think apply to some of my closest friends.

Added: I do have friends in therapy - right here on PL. I listen to them, we compare experiences sometimes and I let them tell me what's going on if/when they're comfortable. Therapy, for me at least, is really personal. But sometimes, I do have questions about certain thought processes. This place is great for that, because I have a wealth of friends who'll never think I'm stupid for asking certain questions. But I don't ask for the details unless those are details they need to share with us.

I've learned a lot in the last year, from being here Dr. Howe. And I'm grateful for all the wonderful friends that I've made on this very site. It's been a saving grace because outside of this place, people have a hard time understanding why therapy can be beneficial. It's just not something that people discuss in the open.

 

[Banned]

My story isn't nearly as long as Jazzey's, but I'll tell you anyway, since there are similar components, I suppose.

I went to therapy for the first time when I was 17 (I'll be 35 in three weeks). I've been in therapy off and on since then, I suppose less "off" and more "on". At first, my mother would say things like "I don't know what you have to be depressed about. You've had everything good in life." or "You don't need therapy. You just need to be happy." Since I've started sharing with her, on a very, very limited basis, my diagnoses, she's let up and now, hopefully, understands that therapy will likely be a part of my life for a very long time. She does not know that it has literally kept me alive on more than one occasion. Since starting back on antidepressants a few weeks ago she also doesn't question those. The first time I took them, I got the same line - "What have you got to be depressed about?"

I have a friend who is very similar in her attitude - that I just need to get over myself, I have nothing to be depressed about, it's all in my head (I suppose it literally is - ha!), etc etc. Needless to say, I mention NOTHING to her anymore.

Generally speaking I'm pretty open about my depression and the fact that I'm on antidepressants and in therapy with more than one therapist. It helps me, for one, accept where I'm at (cause I don't always like it) and it can help remove some of the stigma, on some level.

I find that conversations with my friends who are also in therapy (how is it we seem to migrate to each other?) often centre around our experiences in therapy, our opinions of our therapists, etc. I think in one sense, it is reassuring to us, but also gives us an opportunity to further process a therapeutic experience and gain other perspectives. I also like to brag about my therapists because I think they are simply the best and absolutely amazing

 

[Jazzey]

Yeah, sorry Turtle, I'm a bit of a blabber And maybe provide a little too much detail?

 

[Banned]

No, not too much detail. The more he has the better for him to write his blog. As long as you're comfortable with what you've written...

 

[Jazzey]

Thanks Turtle. For the time being, I'm angry about not being to rely on the very first people I should be able to rely on. so yes, I'm comfortable with what I've written. I've already understood that there's nothing I can say to any of them that will make them understand where I am right now.

I'm not the lying type, and yet this past year, I've lied enough to settle an entire lifetime of lies.

 

[Banned]

Sometimes you have to - to keep other people out of your business when they can't be supportive and/or helpful. If they are going to hurt more than help, I have no qualms about lying either. It's not a practice I like or do if I can avoid it, but there is something to be said for self-preservation as well.

 

[Ryan Howes]

Thank you for your honesty and willingness to share. This topic is more emotionally charged than I thought!

Keep them coming, I'd love to read about it!

-Ryan

 

[Jazzey]

Ok, but you may hear a little anger in the tones used. Sarcasm is my favorite tool....

And feel free to ask more pointed questions Dr. Howes. I'm not exactly the shy type (if you feel it can help your blog)...

 

[Jazzey]

This topic is more emotionally charged than I thought!

Sorry Dr. Howes, this comment intrigues me...And being the curious person that I am, I'm wondering what you were expecting in asking these questions.

If you don't mind, could you share what you anticipated from the membership?

 

[Ryan Howes]

Sorry Dr. Howes, this comment intrigues me...And being the curious person that I am, I'm wondering what you were expecting in asking these questions.

If you don't mind, could you share what you anticipated from the membership?

Glad to, Jazzy.

Some of the people I've worked with do report feeling awkward, annoyed and irritated when those close to them ask about their therapy. Others feel the questions are conveying love and interest in their lives. And some actively solicit opinions about their therapy to help them know what their feelings about it should be, or to validate what they already feel.

I was anticipating anecdotes that prove or disprove my experiences. The very honest accounts shared by you and Turtle are helping me understand that "awkward, annoyed and irritated" feelings are on the mild end of the spectrum. Through your help, I'm understanding that the intersection between therapy and loved ones can be downright hostile.

Thank you again, and I hope this clarifies my intent.

 

[Jazzey]

It does. Thank you Dr. Howes. I think we'll all have different experiences with it. Hopefully, others will share experiences that are more supportive, understanding?

Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me Dr. Howes, sincerely.

 

[Into The Light]

i share bits and pieces of my sessions. parts that have given me a real boost or where i have an insight that i want to share. i've been asked if maybe therapy is just making me dwell on things and maybe it's not necessary - that i'd do better without. that was a genuine question, not out of negativity or unsupportiveness. that question did confuse me. therapy does often "make things worse" first (which i have realized is a necessary part of the process) and so to an outsider it may seem like therapy is hurting us rather than helping us. i've finally figured out the confusion this question brought me - it was also a question at times i've had myself, how do i know if this is the right thing to be pursuing, and isn't it making me stuck on things from the past and magnifying past hurts.

i don't much talk about being in therapy because it would be too hard to explain to people. i guess it depends on who it is.

so no real back seat drivers for me, thankfully at the first sign of it i would just shut down about the subject, and it would become a no go zone with me.

 

[Into The Light]

Others feel the questions are conveying love and interest in their lives. And some actively solicit opinions about their therapy to help them know what their feelings about it should be, or to validate what they already feel.

this is true for me, if that helps any.

 

[Jazzey]

I think that's the real dangers in the backseat drivers. As a patient, I have my own doubts, self-recriminations. Sometimes, it's so easy to rely on others' opinions and decide that I don't need it. Even though from a more intelligent perspective, I know darn well that this is no longer an option for me.

My psychologist helps me with this. We discuss other's concerns and opinions. And without directly telling me that I do need it, she always manages to make me be ok with being in therapy...If this makes sense.

It's a delicate balance. For me, I don't like being told what to do. So if I can feel safe, and know that my audience means the best for me - I'm more likely to listen and come to a more reasoned answer for myself. Which is why, in part, I've continued in therapy. Even though this is something that I could have given up on a few months ago. Now, I go for myself. And I decide with whom I share this valuable piece of information. I'm too susceptible to others' opinions - so it has to be mine to be of any value...


Added: One of the most beneficial things my psychologist has ever said to me - she asked me if she could continue to be my advocate. That's precisely what I need right now, an advocate for me, for my needs, with no ulterior motives attached....

 

[Fiver]

Actually, there's no one in my life who really cares what happens between me and my therapist, other than the good peeps of PL -- with whom I share liberally, the good and the bad. But then, I feel I have a superb relationship with Pat, with the dynamics being just as they need to be for both of our comfort levels. I have been proven time and again that she is always four or five steps ahead of me; not only is she intelligent, she is intuitive, experienced, and tends to understand the way my mind works. I mean, she gets my jokes. There aren't many folks out there who do.

With this in mind, although there's no one around to "backseat drive," my level of confidence and trust in Pat would surely override any negativity anyone might try to throw my way. I'm very, very fortunate. It appears that finding the right therapist the first time around is not necessarily typical, and somehow I managed to do it.

Frankly, it's probably more fortuitous than winning the lottery.

 

[NicNak]

Hi Dr Howes, my pleasure to answer your questions too. I apologize in advance for my grammer as sometimes my words get confused. If you need to have me clairify what I write, please feel free to ask. Thank you.

So here are my questions. Answer one or both, your choice:

1. Do you have any experience with a friend or family member who second guessed/asked too much about/tried to control your therapy? What happened and how did you handle it?

For many years my symptoms were very well under control with medication and therapy. More trama happened in a short span of time. Medications assisted but my symptoms were very odvious at this time, which included panic attacks, anxiety, confusion, shaking, suttering, dissassociation and depressive episodes.

I started to see my Psychiatrist at this time. He is "old school" (from what I hear) because he also does therapy as well as medication reviews. He amazed me from the begining that he read me like a book. He provide with insight as to how to cope with my symptoms, coached me through interactions with other people and then some.

He is very highly regarded in the city for his work. I was very lucky to be able to have him keep seeing me as a patient.

All this being said, while I was still working, my co-workers would constantly question why "they" couldn't "fix" me? Why I was still struggling. Telling me my psychiatrist was not doing me any good.

This also came from co-workers who were also diagnosed with other mental illnesses and had results with a combination of medications and therapy. For these folks, it seemed harder to take. I guess maybe cause they were able to remission.

Even if I tried to explain that since seeing my Psychiatrist I had three other tramatic events that set me back, as well as a low tolorance for meds, they still were laying blame.

I still believe my co-workers were genuinly scared and concerned for my health and well being, but in the process of all I was going through, saying what they were saying started to make me think bad of myself.

I know that may sound strange, but knowing all of my doctors creditials my mind then turned it back onto me, that maybe I wasn't trying hard enough. Or that I was weak for two reasons, one is not being able to handle the side effects of "clinical dosages" of medications and weak for not being able to "snap" myself out of this.

Interms of my family. My father (although I hardly ever see him) seems to share the same opinion of my co-workers and is always trying to push the latest "miracle cure" at me.

My mom is as supportive as she can be. She has a very difficult time coming to terms with how things have effected me. She often asks about my appointments but then doesn't seem like she is paying attention to what I am saying, I sincerely think she finds it hard to hear. So often times I keep quiet to spare her the difficulty.

She does not want anyone to know I am now off work on disability and hides it all.

One thing I must say, is she will mention after my appointments with my Psychiatrist it is almost like I have been given a "booster". She finds I seem to have more of a sense of calm about me.

The rest of my family and friends, luckily, see I have changed, but except me as I am now. Help me along when I need and just allow me to be myself.

2. If you've known a friend or family member who was in therapy, what did you do? Did you ask about their therapy or leave it alone? What if you disagreed with what the therapist told them? What did you really say about that?

I had a best friend who was diagnosed with severe OCD with psychosis episodes. This was around the time of my major relapse. Her husband was at the end of his rope because she was violent, would run away and had been arrested many times for causing disturbances and being distructive.

Initally I didn't know at the time she was doing crack ontop of taking serequil.

Her husband would often ask me my opinion. I would try to guide him to the major hospitals around the city. Tell him where the psychiatric hospitals were. I was more of a resource.

Her husband would ask me to help look after her while he was working, between my shifts. I felt I couldn't say no. My friend was highly suidical and was not going a week without a suicide attempt.

I went for my appointment with my Psychiatrist and he asked me why I looked so tired and drained. I nievely explained I was helping to look after my friend and that her husband had said that "I should be taking more reponsibility for her, because I was her only true friend." I further explained the situation to my Psychiatrist, and told her about her confiding in me about her crack use too. He warned me about the dangers. What if i were there when she attempted suicide? What if she attacked me in a violent outburst? He told me I was walking a fine line myself and that I should not risk any other triggers or tramas.

So I stopped "looking after her" daily.

The only time I said something to her husband about a "treatment" was when he ordered vitamines from online that were supose to be a proven treatment that would work for her.

I told him with how her condition was, he was taking a very bad, high risk with encouraging her to go off her meds in place of these vitamines. He didn't listen.

Two weeks later she was arrested and hospitalized again.

 

[NicNak]

Hi Dr Howes.

I just wanting to ask, if you recieve enough information for your blog? Please feel free to let us know if we can be more assistance.

 

[Ryan Howes]

Thanks for asking, NicNak.

You all have given me so much rich information, and it seems like there is a broad spectrum of experiences: some people have found care and support from loved ones regarding therapy, others have faced a great deal of animosity. I appreciate how candid everyone has been.

If I were to ask for more, it would be this: does it ever feel like a tug of war? Like divided loyalty? For example: Your trusted friend thinks you should try meds but your therapist discourages it. Your friend thinks the argument was your fault but your therapist thinks it was the other guy. Your friend thinks the problem is in your childhood, but your therapist thinks it's about irrational thinking. Ever been in that kind of bind? What was that like? What did you do?

Again, you've all given more than I had expected, but if you have a few thoughts I'd love to hear them. Thanks again---

 

[white page]

Hi Ryan Howes,

This thread is of great interest, I would like to make a small contribution in relation to your latest post.
Without going into great detail, the background I grew up in was very clouded by a mother who was an undiagnosed schizoprenic, ( she was diagnosed long after I left home and is now stabilised , I hope)
This meant that her style of parenting was totaly intrusive, abusive and innappropriate.
My therapist helped me to construct those missing defenses, which had been impossible to construct as a young child.
When I began therapy I was so excited that at last a person took into serious account my distress at living, that I confided to a 'friend' a big mistake!

She became more and more intrusive and tried to get into my head, telling me what I should be doing, trying to run my life.

For instance, my therapist encouraged me to make brave steps into the world, and when I talked about this to the 'friend' she discouraged me. eg I would talk about a new project for my work, the friend would tell me all the reasons not to do it, thus puncturing my enthusiasm.

One day the friend rang and asked me for my therapists address, and I had a terrible feeling of panic and nausea, I didn't give the address, making some sort of feeble excuse.

During the next session, I brought this up; about how panicked I felt and how the friend seemed to be hobbling me, and was I being paranoid about it.

To be brief, it was a fairly common syndrome of resistence from the entourage of some one who was taking control of their life and the feeling of panic I had felt was a visceral fear that once again someone would steal my potential for living.

From then on I never again talked about my sessions or therapist to any one, needless to say the 'friend' dropped out of sight shortly after I stopped talking about my plans and personal insights.