Question about daughter (17 years old)

[Darkside]

I have 3 children. The oldest is a 25 year old man and has moved away from home. The next is a 19 year old boy with Aspergers. He lives with his mother while attending tech school. The youngest is a girl who also lives with her mom. She will be 17 next month. The dilemma is with the girl.

She and her mother do not get along. They fight like cats and dogs and in my opinion my ex-wife escalates way too high. (17 year old girls will always escalate - adults should stay calm) My ex-wife usually ends up prevailing and forcing my daughter to apologize even though, in my opinion, her mother was equally wrong. She is forcing her to be in pageants and modeling when my daughter is only lukewarm about it. My daughter would rather try out for the soccer team or gymnastics. Also, my daughter complained about bullying at school and my ex-wife became furious with her and can't understand why my daughter is upset.

My daughter came to my house for the weekend to see a boy she likes. But while she was here she began to breakdown and tell me what was going on at home. She is very depressed and had a panic attack when it was time to leave and go home. She stayed an extra day so we could talk. She still did not want to leave, but I encouraged her to go back home and talk to her mother so she did. I didn't hear anything for an hour or so after she got home, but now I've gotten a serious of angry text messages from her mother blaming me and blaming my daughter and talking about how hurt and miserable she is because our daughter has said mean things to her. She has tried to turn the whole thing into something about her when it is really about our daughter.

I don't want to intervene in their process. My daughter wants her mother to be a certain way ... she says things like, "I just want her to love me ...", or "I just want her to ....." (fill in the blank) I've tried to explain that she cannot control what other people do or say and she cannot change her mother into something she is not. Her mother is cruel sometimes, but she does love our daughter.

But she vacillates between coming up here to live and go to school (we live about 150 miles apart) and staying with her mother. What I've tried to do is offer her a refuge ... an alternative so she has a choice.

I suspect some sort of mental abuse. There have been occasions of physical abuse in the past, but as far as I can tell right now the worst it might be is some sort of psychological abuse and/or acting out by both of them. But what worries me are the symptoms of depression and anxiety I see in her. She was not this way as a little girl, but as she has gotten older I see it more and more. She is on 10 mg of Lexapro now but it does not seem to be helping. She absolutely despises her school and dreads going every day out of fear of more bullying. She does not understand why everyone does not like her. (a control issue I know)

So I am at a crossroads. I can take legal action or my daughter can decide on her own to move. I've tried to stay neutral about her mother, but this afternoon I began to doubt that and wondered if I should have just told her to stay here and not return home. She is in agony now (just talked to her) and her mother is not nurturing or helpful. She takes my daughter's unhappiness as a personal insult to her. If I leave her where she is and something tragic happens (she has threatened suicide) I will blame myself for not being more aggressive.

This is about as good as I can do at asking a question. Chaos like this confuses me. I need some advice.

 

[forgetmenot]

I am not a professional hun but i think you and your wife and daughter should make a meeting and all together CALMLY discuss what is best for your daughter She will be an adult soon and will be able to make her own path but for now if she is suicidal then her mother and YOU and your child need to work something out that will keep her safe

 

[Darkside]

I agree "fmn" but I've just had an exchange with the two of them and my daughter, who was sure of what she wanted, is not so sure now and will barely talk to me. Her voice sounds like a mouse. My ex-wife sent me a text and said she wil not let her leave even if she wants to. I should never have let her go back today. Sometimes I trust people to do the right thing even when I know they will only do what is in their own selfish interest.

 

[forgetmenot]

I don't know where you live but i think at 16 your daughter can make that decision on her own to go live with you. It would be better though if her mother would give her that choice and not threaten her All you can do is to be there and listen to your daughter and if you feel she is in harms way to call a crisis line for her You do not want to cause any more friction between her and her mother You are in a very hard place to be hun but hopefully when your daughter is ready to make a choice she knows you will be there for her. It is a shame her mother will not agree to have a family meeting

 

[David Baxter PhD]

She is 17. At that age she is legally entitled to decide where she want to live and any family court will uphold that.

At the earliest opportunity, I would advise you to let your daughter know that legally the choice is entirely up to her and that whatever she decides you will support her.

 

[Darkside]

I don't know where you live but i think at 16 your daughter can make that decision on her own to go live with you. It would be better though if her mother would give her that choice and not threaten her All you can do is to be there and listen to your daughter and if you feel she is in harms way to call a crisis line for her You do not want to cause any more friction between her and her mother You are in a very hard place to be hun but hopefully when your daughter is ready to make a choice she knows you will be there for her. It is a shame her mother will not agree to have a family meeting

She can but for the fact that my ex-wife is herself a bully and belligerent and can overwhelm my daughter's wishes and desires. She can decide where she wants to live under our state law and she can leave her mother's home, but if I intervene I risk violating parental kidnapping laws. (if I were to go down and pick her up) The best way is for her mother and I to agree what is in my daughter's best interest, and failing that, the next best thing is to proceed through the courts. The dilemma I face is that it will take 2-3 weeks to have a hearing in Family Court to decide temporary custody. Yesterday, my daughter would have told the judge she wants to live with me. Today, now that she is back with her mother, I think she would say she wants to stay with her mother.

Stockholm Syndrome?

---------- Post Merged at 12:01 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:40 AM ----------

She is 17. At that age she is legally entitled to decide where she want to live and any family court will uphold that.

At the earliest opportunity, I would advise you to let your daughter know that legally the choice is entirely up to her and that whatever she decides you will support her.

Thanks Dr. Baxter. I have let her know that her wishes are the most important thing right now and I will support her in her choice.

If I take the legal route it will take 2-3 weeks to schedule a hearing. During that time she will be staying with my ex-wife. I know my ex-wife pretty well and she will do everything in her power to persuade my daughter to to tell the judge at the hearing that she wants to stay with her mother.

I know there is no perfect solution and I may have to take my chances, but the legal system does not work very well in these circumstances.

She is going to the doctor later today and I've begged my ex-wife and daughter to go to counseling in the afternoons after school. Maybe something will come of that. The doctor may even suggest she move here, but regardless of what the doctor and my daughter say, the chances that my ex-wife will voluntarily let her move are slim.

---------- Post Merged at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 12:01 PM ----------

My ex-wife took my daughter to her regular doctor this afternoon. He changed her dose of Lexapro and said she needed to change schools.

He also ended recommended that she go to an Adolescent In-Patient facility nearby for 2-3 days to be evaluated.

---------- Post Merged at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:11 PM ----------

Back when we were going through a divorce I tried to get our entire family into counseling starting with my wife and me. I went for my evaluation and my wife was supposed to go a day or two later. She refused to go. It was at that moment that I decided I needed to divorce the woman. My regret is that I didn't push for custody. That would have meant the involvement of social services, a GAL, and psychologists and all of this would have come out a lot sooner. As it turned out I was the only one who went for counseling.

 

[Jesse910]

Hi Darkside:

I'm late to the dinner, but as the mother of a 15 year old boy, the teen years are highly charged at best. One minute your kid wants one thing and then another. Ideally, if the doctor is suggesting in patient care, perhaps that could help. Hopefully, separated from both you and your ex-wife will allow her to be able to think around people who are not involved in her daily activities. As the product of divorced parents, my mother was the custodial parent and at times, she was overbearing in her handling of my brother and me. One of her habits when upset was to break dishes or to hit us. My father lived in the same state but did not rescue us. Ideally, kids can benefit from two parents who have his/her best interest at heart. Your ex-wife isn't going to change. However, you can help your daughter to come to terms with herself. Perhaps, the two of you can benefit from counseling so that you can get a handle on how best to support her. And, in a protective setting with you, she can learn to find a direction that best meets her life. The bickering between mother/daughter has got to stop immediately. One of my problems growing up was learning to find my own voice separate and apart from my mother. I encourage you to remain involved. You divorced your ex-wife, please do not divorce your daughter.

 

[Darkside]

Hi Darkside:

I'm late to the dinner, but as the mother of a 15 year old boy, the teen years are highly charged at best. One minute your kid wants one thing and then another. Ideally, if the doctor is suggesting in patient care, perhaps that could help. Hopefully, separated from both you and your ex-wife will allow her to be able to think around people who are not involved in her daily activities. As the product of divorced parents, my mother was the custodial parent and at times, she was overbearing in her handling of my brother and me. One of her habits when upset was to break dishes or to hit us. My father lived in the same state but did not rescue us. Ideally, kids can benefit from two parents who have his/her best interest at heart. Your ex-wife isn't going to change. However, you can help your daughter to come to terms with herself. Perhaps, the two of you can benefit from counseling so that you can get a handle on how best to support her. And, in a protective setting with you, she can learn to find a direction that best meets her life. The bickering between mother/daughter has got to stop immediately. One of my problems growing up was learning to find my own voice separate and apart from my mother. I encourage you to remain involved. You divorced your ex-wife, please do not divorce your daughter.

Yes, teen years are highly charged, but as adults we are supposed to try to not get caught up in the drama. My ex-wife thrives on conflict and drama and if it is absent she will create it.

I went to see my daughter today at the hospital. She will only be there 3 days. She did try to commit suicide but it was half-hearted. (she took 4 x 10 mg doses of Lexapro.) I don't mean to minimize it but they are just trying to make sure that she didn't actually mean to kill herself and failed. Still, even an aborted attempt is dangerous because something could happen accidentally.

I spent 30 minutes talking to the Psychiatrist. Well, actually I just listened and he talked. My ex-wife is on her best behavior because the spotlight is shining directly on her and she knows it. It will all be peachy for the next few weeks until they get into another fight.

If she comes to live with me I want to make sure that (a) it isn't about the boy; (b) she knows it is for at least a year; and (c) that she go to counseling every week until such time that the counselor thinks she doesn't need it.

---------- Post Merged on October 3rd, 2013 at 08:12 AM ---------- Previous Post was on October 2nd, 2013 at 09:39 PM ----------

I also woke up this morning and realized that much of this is teenage angst. It is a transition from childhood to adulthood and the more successfully she negotiates the next few years the better her quality of life over the long run. In short, she is a "handful" and for me to sit here and think I can parent her better is probably not accurate. My ex-wife just gets caught up in the drama because of her own unfinished business, but I'm not convinced she is as "at fault" as my daughter would like me to believe. Perhaps she does make it worse, but it is hard for me to judge because I am not there. Also, my judgment is distorted a bit by my experience with my ex-wife while going through a divorce which probably skews my perception.

I am sympathetic to my daughter so she turns to me when things don't go her way at home. I can see this situation reverse if she was living here.

 

[Jesse910]

If she comes to live with me I want to make sure that (a) it isn't about the boy; (b) she knows it is for at least a year; and (c) that she go to counseling every week until such time that the counselor thinks she doesn't need it.

Darkside:

I think one of the things that strike me about your posts are that you seem to want to define the parameters of what your daughter may do when she's with you and for how long. And, that's fine. If you are going to be actively involved in your daughter life, then you will have to work out a relationship with your ex-wife because both of you are the parents of this daughter. It doesn't have to be sugary, but at least amenable so that your daughter is not flitting back and forth and saying one thing to one of you and something different to the other parent. Seems to me also that you will have to set guidelines for how you and your ex can handle your interactions in a manner that falls under mutual respect. Even if she's the drama queen, you can possibly be the gentleman.

As I stated earlier, both of you can benefit from counseling. It helps to bounce ideas around with another adult who's not caught up in the fray of things. At times, parenting is just coming along side and letting your child know that you don't have all the answers, but that you are there for them. It's inviting them into the conversation and asking them what they want and guiding them towards a holistic path. And, as far as counseling goes, it's an ongoing process. She might be a candidate for a woman therapist. Personally, I interact 100% better with men than I do women because of my past. However, I have a female therapist who at first I was very antagonistic towards. Yet, over time, she has been the good mother I did not have and that has enabled me to see women in a new light and find healing.

Take care.

 

[Darkside]

If she comes to live with me I want to make sure that (a) it isn't about the boy; (b) she knows it is for at least a year; and (c) that she go to counseling every week until such time that the counselor thinks she doesn't need it.

Darkside:

I think one of the things that strike me about your posts are that you seem to want to define the parameters of what your daughter may do when she's with you and for how long. And, that's fine. If you are going to be actively involved in your daughter life, then you will have to work out a relationship with your ex-wife because both of you are the parents of this daughter. It doesn't have to be sugary, but at least amenable so that your daughter is not flitting back and forth and saying one thing to one of you and something different to the other parent. Seems to me also that you will have to set guidelines for how you and your ex can handle your interactions in a manner that falls under mutual respect. Even if she's the drama queen, you can possibly be the gentleman.

As I stated earlier, both of you can benefit from counseling. It helps to bounce ideas around with another adult who's not caught up in the fray of things. At times, parenting is just coming along side and letting your child know that you don't have all the answers, but that you are there for them. It's inviting them into the conversation and asking them what they want and guiding them towards a holistic path. And, as far as counseling goes, it's an ongoing process. She might be a candidate for a woman therapist. Personally, I interact 100% better with men than I do women because of my past. However, I have a female therapist who at first I was very antagonistic towards. Yet, over time, she has been the good mother I did not have and that has enabled me to see women in a new light and find healing.

Take care.

Thanks for your comments. Do you have children?

I think I will let her pick the therapist she sees. Maybe she can go and talk to some therapists that I know and see which one she likes the best. But I have to keep in mind that she will probably try to pick the one that will take her side.

As a parent I do want to set some reasonable limits and expectations. If she comes here and expects that a relationship with this boy is possible and then discovers it is not I don't want to have her come to me in a month and say she wants to go back with her mother. It is a lot of trouble and expensive to change legal custody and move a minor from one parent to another. All of her friends and her older brother and best friend are where she lives now. Not sure she knows it will break their hearts if she leaves.

Teenagers will always manipulate their parents to get what they want, but she has to be able to handle "no" and not act out.

She learned a lot of this manipulation and "acting out" from her mother. The doctor in the hospital called her impulsive behavior "automatic thoughts." My ex-wife has this same behavior. Most of her automatic thoughts are negative:

They don't like me
I'm no good
They're talking about me
Why did she say that
I must be ugly

I don't do a lot of that so living with me might give her a different model and that might be good for her. She is usually sweet and well mannered around me and I don't lie or mislead her. I don't say one thing and do another and I don't act one way around people and a different way in private. I am who I am and I'm not complicated. I think she has been parented by someone who is inconsistent and even erratic.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Jesse910]

I think I will let her pick the therapist she sees. Maybe she can go and talk to some therapists that I know and see which one she likes the best. But I have to keep in mind that she will probably try to pick the one that will take her side.

As a parent I do want to set some reasonable limits and expectations.

She learned a lot of this manipulation and "acting out" from her mother. The doctor in the hospital called her impulsive behavior "automatic thoughts." My ex-wife has this same behavior. Most of her automatic thoughts are negative.

I don't do a lot of that so living with me might give her a different model and that might be good for her. She is usually sweet and well mannered around me and I don't lie or mislead her. I don't say one thing and do another and I don't act one way around people and a different way in private. I am who I am and I'm not complicated. I think she has been parented by someone who is inconsistent and even erratic.

Darkside:

My husband and I have a 15 year-old child. So, I understand the terrain of raising a teenager. Allowing your daughter to select her therapist is the only way it's going to work. She has to be comfortable in sharing her issues with whom she feels safe. And, any therapist worth their license is not going to take her side and allow her to get away with things. Successful therapy provides a safety net in which to express ourselves without fear of being rejected. Your daughter may feel rejected by both you and your ex and acting out is one way that she gets attention. I'm learning that consistency is what's important in raising a child. It's setting boundaries and sticking to them. And, in setting boundaries for our children, it's not always about rescuing them. Kids learn a lot from the consequences of their mistakes.

I don't necessarily agree with you that teenagers will always manipulate their parents. Our child has tried that tactic and realized that it didn't work. I also think it works against you to continue to point out that your ex is manipulative because your daughter is a combination of you both.

While I think it's admirable that you pointed out your good qualities and how you are not complicated, it is interesting that you do not live near your daughter. It sounds like you escaped the drama and moved your life to a state of calm. However, as long as you and your ex share in the lives of your children, you have to understand, if you don't already, that striving for harmony wherever possible can bridge a lot of gaps and it can serve to help your daughter grow in her maturity.

 

[Darkside]

I had a good conversation with the social worker when she was released today. The social worker believes that her mother does not provide enough healthy and positive nurturing to help her navigate these years and actually told her that in a diplomatic way. But here's the cool part. My daughter said to her mother, "I don't want you to fix it I want you to be a better listener." She told her she just needed someone to talk to and maybe vent a little when she feels frustrated, scared, lonely and sad. Mom is a codependent and those feelings scare the hell out of her unless she can "fix them." The social worker encouraged mom not to interfere with the father-daughter relationship and instead to celebrate it. I thought that was wise and perceptive of her because she only knew my daughter for a few days.

However, and although I have to take this with a grain of salt because my ex-wife does not always tell the truth, they went into Petco to look around, and my daughter asked if she could have a kitten. My wife told her it was too expensive ($125) and they had an argument. According to my ex-wife, my daughter told her that she would not insist on moving in with me if her mom would buy the cat. When she said "no" my daughter (again, I was not there so it is second-hand) told her she wanted to move in with me immediately because I would buy her the kitten.

They have some good will accumulated from the meeting with the social worker today and I think my ex-wife took it to heart. Hopefully, it will be the beginning of a growth experience for both of them and will carry forward from here. They both have to work at it by being patient, kind, listening and forgiving when they regress - which they will. Hopefully, they will take timeouts when things get tough and an argument starts and they won't escalate. I really don't want to see her leave there on bad terms if she comes here. My daughter has to forgive her mother too. Her mother has a stressful life and it is not possible for her to be perfect in every way.

 

[Jesse910]

Darkside:

So glad that you were able to speak to the social worker today. Sounds like your daughter has learned some encouraging language "I don't want you to fix it. I want you to be a better listener." Like any new skill set, it's one step forward and two steps backwards. The kitten issue sounds like a power play. In all honesty, I would not spend $125 for a cat when there are so many animals that need homes.

Hopefully, your daughter will obtain the counseling she needs. I hope you plan to remain involved in your daughter's life and if she comes to live with you that that will be a healthy and loving experience for both of you. However, if she chooses to remain at home that you will be involved in her life and continue to work with your daughter towards handling her issues appropriately.

 

[Darkside]

I have some follow up to this. I was going to start a new thread, but the issues are so similar that it seemed wise to include the recent events in this thread.

First some background. During Christmas break last December all 3 of my children came here the day before Christmas for a small celebration and to open gifts. I left for about an hour one morning to take my middle son to get a haircut and when I came back my oldest son and my daughter were in fight. My daughter had gone through my things and found my handgun and brought it out and waved it around to show my oldest son. It upset him greatly so they were fighting. I felt helpless as I usually do when people yell at each other, but eventually everyone calmed down. A week later, my daughter called and left a message that she was moving to Columbia. I called back but she had changed her mind and said she was just upset. I can understand that so I was okay.

But while my middle son and I were gone from the house he told me that they were going to have to move. I asked him why and he said his mother had lost the house. I really didn't pay much attention to it and didn't mention it to anyone else. In late January a friend of mine was talking about losing his home due to foreclosure and I remembered what he had said. So I looked it up online and found that she was in foreclosure. It was actually started in 2011 due to the failure to make mortgage payments dating all the way back to 2009. The foreclosure was stopped because of court rules but it was restarted last November and was close to being finalized. (We are a judicial foreclosure state so everything is a public record.)

I became concerned about my children and where they would live so I contacted my ex-wife to find out about it. That turned out badly because she began to question how I knew about it. I didn't want to violate my son's confidence so I told her a friend of mine who does foreclosure work (I am an attorney) told me and I looked it up online. I was trying to protect my son. This soon escalated and a few hours later my daughter called very upset. She began to tell me about things at her house and the way her mother had been acting. (mother and step-father's behavior, lack of money, yelling, fighting and cursing ... things that worried me)

After thinking about it for a few days I called my daughter (I was going to call my son too, but he never leaves his phone turned on) and told her that under the circumstances I believed she needed to pack up her things and move up her with me. She was very rational and calm and presented good arguments about why she wanted to stay. I was impressed and told her, "okay, but the offer is open if at any time you believe you should move. Just call me and let me know." She said she would.

I've seen her several times since then and things seemed to be going better for her. No recent outbursts. In the meantime, I've sent several thousand dollars to her mother to help with my middle son's braces and other medical expenses not covered by insurance. A few weeks ago my daughter called and asked me if I would buy her a Prom Dress for $500. I told her, "no" very firmly and said I thought that was too much. A few days later she asked if I would pay $300 and I said, "yes."

Last weekend I was playing golf with some friends and when I finished I had 6 missed calls from her, voicemail and a text message. I was worried that it was an emergency so I immediately called back and got her voicemail. I read the texts and listened to her voicemail and it was about the dress. She wanted me to call the store to pay for it. So I did and gave them my credit card number. They gave me a price that was wrong. They called back and said the price was actually $455 and I said "no" and canceled the payment. You guys probably know where this is going.

I called my daughter back and got her voicemail again. So I sent her a text and said $455 was too much. I told her I would pay that amount but she would have to pay me back $155. She began a tirade by text that I have never heard from her in my life. It all sounded eerily like my ex-wife. Then later I got a series of text messages from my ex-wife that sounded almost identical. Name-calling, insults, cursing, and threats that sounded almost demonic. I have heard my ex-wife talk like that, but I honestly have never heard my daughter say anything close to it. I kept repeating that "our agreement was $300." The only thing I said that I regret was that I felt like what she had done was deceitful. But truthfully, it was deceitful.

Even now, a week later, she is angry. I get the feeling that her mother is getting some sort of sadistic pleasure seeing my daughter melt down into anger against me when she was about to move in and live with me last fall.

My appraisal of the situation is that her mother (my ex-wife) has coached and encouraged this behavior in my daughter. She is irresponsible and prone to extreme fits of anger and rage when she doesn't get what she wants and has taught my daughter the same behavior. Now I remember why I divorced the woman.

When I've talked to my male friends I hear some variation on this story over and over again. They've either personally experienced it or know someone who has been through it. But all of them have said, and I agree with this, that I can't fix or change either of them - particularly my ex-wife. (And frankly, I don't really care what she does except to the extent it affects my children.) They have all said to try and stay in touch with her, reassure her I will pay what I promised, and that I love her. Either she will come around or she won't. It might take weeks or months or even years; or she may hang onto her anger for her entire life.

It is the idea that she may never get over it that bothers me. My family has a history of lifetime grudges without reconciliation. My mother is almost 94 and to this day hates her father. My brother died hating my father. My sister lives hating my father and my mother. I'm not fond of my mother or my sister, but I can't say that the anger consumes me every waking hour. I don't plan my life around it. But in the case of my daughter, I think this is anger linked with guilt. She can't face the guilt so the anger acts as insulation to protect her from feeling guilt or taking responsibility. My dislike of my mother is based on her efforts to control and manipulate by lying about people and events. But I also recognize I was far from a perfect son. I try very hard to take responsibility for my own actions.

I just want my daughter to be that kind of person.

 

[Jesse910]

Darkside:
It has definitely been a while. A part of me feels the burden of your entire family. While I feel as though there are parts that are missing as there are in each of our stories, suffice it to say that you need to set boundaries about what is okay and what is not okay when your children are with you. I hope you have dealt with the handgun and placed it either in a new place under lock and key or taken it out of the home altogether. The "prom dress setup" was a ploy to get daddy to pay for what she really wanted. And, you did well to veto the charge immediately. Parenting as you already know is not about who has the deeper pockets, but rather who is available to listen, act when necessary, protect, love, and be the voice of reason. I'm sorry about your ex-wife's foreclosure situation. Apparently, she has made some bad choices or been given some erroneous advice and it is reaching its end. Continue to listen and guide your children as best you can. I don't recall whether or not you have a custody arrangement.

Families have incredible power to either love or destroy each other. I can firmly identify with that aspect of your message. All that we can ever do is own the part that we played. We cannot fix anyone but ourselves. As for who will your daughter become, only time will tell. Be the best father that you can be with her and your other two children. Provide the structure and care.

 

[Darkside]

That was well said Jesse and thank you. Ever since this happened I have doubted that I did the right thing, but the more times I hear someone say that I acted correctly the better I feel about it. As to the handgun it is safely hidden. I thought it was before but she found it. Thankfully, the ammunition and the gun are in separate hiding places and she did not find the ammunition. Right now it is unlikely she will be in my house anytime soon. If she does come back I'll hide in the basement.

Someone else used the term "emotional blackmail" because she says she never wants to see or talk to me again.

 

[W00BY]

You know I think you should see this as border testing...Girls are more complex emotionally than boys at this age (on the surface anyway) and also better verbally...they are trying to not only work out what is right and wrong in an adult world but also move from being a child to an adult...the borders are different...in today's society kids are allowed to be kids and I think the transition is more stressful also.

What you need to see here is that you have a relationship with your daughter were you have been supportive and nurturing and what that gets you sometimes is this border pushing...okay just how far does this thoughtful caring person go...To find out it is not limitless or that your are just as intelligent and "onto" them when they pull these scams (and tbh it is only my own daughter that has tried this with me...my boys are far too tactless) is what the anger is about it is a border and also a recognition of "oh oh I am rumbled".

I see more positive attributes here than negative I know it doesn't feel like it but to have the relationship with your daughter that you have shows that you have got it right in all the key areas.

And I think it is more teenage-hood than anything, it is now recognized state all of it's own due to the brains physiological state at this point and the behaviours that go with it and much of what your describing is typical of a supportive parent with a teenage daughter.

 

[Darkside]

I reached out to her today to tell her I would help pay for her braces. Her reply was, "I don't want your help."

"Ouch!!"

But she did cash the check I sent her for her dress. (for the original amount I said I would pay)

At age 60 I am just learning what it means to be patient.

 

[Jesse910]

Hi Darkside:

My husband and I continue to have parenting challenges with our 16-year old son. Some days, we get the slamming door; the "I don't want to talk to you about it" or the wonderful word, "FINE." I used to measure my success as a parent by how well my son liked/loved me. I finally came to the conclusion that all I can do is love and model positive behavior because, I have my own issues and insecurities to confront. You reached out to your child today and she mouthed off. Remind yourself that she's still got a long way to go on so many levels. Treat yourself to something fun and move on. Tomorrow's coming.

 

[Darkside]

As long as she is doing pageants and modeling she and her mother seem to get along. I don't know how deep the relationship runs, but it looks like things are better for her. (my daughter) I don't mind that she is mad with me. In fact, I see it as healthy (even though it hurts) that she has these feelings. I think children of divorce should express their anger towards their parents, but I am fearful that she is hanging onto it far too long. Holding resentment and grudges can become something that lasts a lifetime. That would break my heart ... and my heart has been broken too much and too often by family as it is.