Question about daughter (17 years old)

[Jesse910]

Darkside:

Having been a child of divorced parents, I can tell that it is rougher to handle when both parents are adversarial and/or silent. My anger at my father for what he could have been in my life has subsided but it's still there. I loved and still love my Dad, but his absence in the early years of my life made it dfficult for me to form healthy relationships with males until years later. Stay involved as much as you can.

 

[W00BY]

I find being emotionally honest helps...my kids know I have had a tough childhood and have issues with how I relate to them...I have explained why I split from their dad...I have had issues with my daughter...and your right they do hold onto things...

I spoke in depth to my daughter about self delusion and lying to ones self about our less likable traits and that once this starts the facade needs to be preserved and my entire family use drink...drugs and violence to maintain it. I have spoken frankly with her about hormones, emotions, social pressures everything teenage life contains.

I also told her I understood that there were things that she would not want to talk to me about as she cares for me and my feelings as much as I care for her and that this was okay..BUT...that she had to speak to someone about it regularly...the school got her a counsellor at my request and things have been going well.


I sometimes think it is the only thing you can gift your child when you have given them all else...a bit of honesty and accountability for why you are who you are I think helps them to work out who they are and also to not fear themselves so much...teenage years are so bewildering I think showing them your own emotional anchor helps sometimes.

I am wondering if this may help you...if you cite your concerns about what you feel she is hanging on to (anger wise) (and your fears if this continues) but relate it to your own thoughts on as an adult and a parent your reasoning for what happened with her mother and the struggles you have had over the years to keep an even keel.

I think teenagers in particular mistake us (parents/carers) for something other than a human being at times and I find reminding them who I am and what I am brings a bit of balance...for sometimes as long as five whole minutes!!!

 

[Jesse910]

Wooby:

Thank you for your response to Darkside. In my challenges to be a "good" mom, I tend to shy away from revealing too much of my childhood because at times, it still hurts. My parents separated and divorced. It was rarely discussed. Dad moved away; re-married and as the obedient "go along to get along kid," I did not rock the boat. As an adult, both my husband and I try to share things with our son about life so that he understands that we faced challenges as children and those challenges have shaped who we became. We love him in a manner that we were never loved as children. I agree with you Wobby, our children are not always going to come to us about some things. The best thing that we can do is be available, listen, make suggestions, teach them consequences for inappropriate behavior, and direct them to others when necessary. And, always always love them.

 

[Darkside]

I find being emotionally honest helps...my kids know I have had a tough childhood and have issues with how I relate to them...I have explained why I split from their dad...I have had issues with my daughter...and your right they do hold onto things...

I spoke in depth to my daughter about self delusion and lying to ones self about our less likable traits and that once this starts the facade needs to be preserved and my entire family use drink...drugs and violence to maintain it. I have spoken frankly with her about hormones, emotions, social pressures everything teenage life contains.

I also told her I understood that there were things that she would not want to talk to me about as she cares for me and my feelings as much as I care for her and that this was okay..BUT...that she had to speak to someone about it regularly...the school got her a counsellor at my request and things have been going well.


I sometimes think it is the only thing you can gift your child when you have given them all else...a bit of honesty and accountability for why you are who you are I think helps them to work out who they are and also to not fear themselves so much...teenage years are so bewildering I think showing them your own emotional anchor helps sometimes.

I am wondering if this may help you...if you cite your concerns about what you feel she is hanging on to (anger wise) (and your fears if this continues) but relate it to your own thoughts on as an adult and a parent your reasoning for what happened with her mother and the struggles you have had over the years to keep an even keel.

I think teenagers in particular mistake us (parents/carers) for something other than a human being at times and I find reminding them who I am and what I am brings a bit of balance...for sometimes as long as five whole minutes!!!

This is really good. Thank you! You are absolutely right that my honesty is the only way to help them resolve their own pain. They have to know about my own struggle to find out who I am and to accept who I am in order to find their own path. I don't let my guard down enough around them.

I have tried to talk to them about how I see myself and how I see the world. I have told them that my family growing up was not a very nice place. But it has taken me years ... really decades ... to come to grips with it and I still deny it from time to time.

But they are young (25, 20 and 17) and their mother shelters them. Not the oldest one so much, but the two younger ones. The time I have with them is limited and right now my daughter doesn't want to see me so I can't hop in the car and drive down there. I think I'm going to have to be patient and let this blow over.

It was really awkward a couple of weeks ago. I was walking with some co-workers to get lunch and I see my ex-wife and daughter walking the other way. I didn't even know they were here. I waived and my ex-wife waived back but not my daughter. A few minutes later I got a text from my ex-wife asking me to walk over and say hello. Well, this was a working lunch so I couldn't really leave. I have to credit my ex-wife for making an effort to get us together ... something she has never done before.

This week I got a text message from my daughter which said, "I don't care how much I hate you I am coming up there to live." I responded by saying she was welcome to come any time she wanted to but didn't hear much back from her.

So it is hard to have times of sharing with my children when I see and talk to them so little. I make the effort when I can, but right now I am bit stymied.

But back to the point you made about facade. I see my daughter erecting a facade (false persona) to guard against the pain she started to feel about a year ago. I see it in her desire for "things" and her interest in "beauty" and "status" rather than in being real. Now that might sound like a harsh judgment because all those things are not "bad" per se, but carried to the extreme they can be a shield or a kind of armor and will keep out true intimacy and closeness as well as pain.

It's funny, but as I've gotten older I'm not as afraid of feeling pain ... physical or emotional. I see most of my own defense mechanisms from earlier years as ways I protected myself from that. I even used alcohol and drugs to numb the pain when it became too much. Even depression can function as a defense mechanism. So my hope and prayer is that just as I've begun to outgrow these aspects of my own false persona my children will too. It's just that I see my own mother and father - and my sister and brother too - as torn apart by unresolved grief and anger.

At this point, my daughter could go either way.

 

[MHealthJo]

I am thinking of you in these difficult times Darkside.

As you have sensed, many words your daughter says can be seen as defense mechanisms, pollution, or manipulation tools, not her real feelings. I hope this thought soothes a little bit when she says hurtful words. But it's also very clear that your primary concern always is your daughter's journey and future rather than your own feelings. I admire and respect your low level of reactivity with her, and that quality you have is a firm foundation and potential for positive developments with her.

You may at some point wish to read The Dance of Intimacy by Harriet Lerner. I remember it having some very useful guidance in how we can work with our own vulnerability, authenticity, and the story of our journey, as the most powerful way of inspiring or supporting change we may like to see in someone else. Also there is very good information for all those important times that we need to set a boundary with someone, or figure out what that boundary should be. Excellent against manipulation, the 'raising the bar' thing when the person bucks against your boundary, and faith for how respectful setting of boundaries, low reactivity, and authenticity are powerful and effective.

Hang in there, and credit on the work you have done on yourself which has created the foundation that you do have.

 

[Darkside]

Thank you for saying all of that. I'm in a place right now where I don't have much support. I'm not married and while I have some friends most of them are not the type that I can share this with. My older sister was one of my abusers growing up and I don't trust her. She has used personal/private information about me and my children without asking me in the past.

Today was rough. I had no less than 19 text messages from my ex-wife telling me what a terrible father I am because I will not send my daughter more money. Last night I told her I could not afford to send more money but today she started again. I typed 4 different responses and deleted them all without sending. In the middle of those messages from my ex-wife I received a single text message from my daughter that said, "you can say you are my father, but you will never be my dad."

Just a few days ago she sent a message telling me she was mad at me but wanted to come up here and live.

I am pretty depressed right now.

---------- Post Merged at 07:23 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:19 PM ----------

Darkside:

Having been a child of divorced parents, I can tell that it is rougher to handle when both parents are adversarial and/or silent. My anger at my father for what he could have been in my life has subsided but it's still there. I loved and still love my Dad, but his absence in the early years of my life made it dfficult for me to form healthy relationships with males until years later. Stay involved as much as you can.

Part of her anger is legitimate, but part of it is blackmail.

 

[Jesse910]

I'm sorry Darkside that you are going through a rough time. Your ex-wife tactics are not lost on your daughter.

 

[MHealthJo]

I'm so sorry too Darkside.

Remember.... When manipulation and blackmail absolutely does not work on someone, nothing, nada, no payoff (including the payoff of drama or engagement with it/acknowledgement of it which can be a legitimate payoff for some), it has a tendency to stop....

Stay strong... never be afraid to temporarily block calls, messages or emails from certain numbers. When you know for a time they are going to be unreasonable, hurtful, rude and manipulative, there is no reason for you to be obligated to receive or read them.

 

[Darkside]

Thank you all very much. I have just realized what a toll this is taking on me. My ex-wife continues to stand between me and a relationship with my children. The sad thing is that they only have an inkling of it. What they do know they are afraid to say.

The one thought that I've had recently that has helped is to remember that my daughter is only 17. She doesn't have a clue what she is doing.

 

[forgetmenot]

She will wake up one day and realize just how much she harmed you and she will be sorry hun She is only acting on what her mother teaches her know it is not her ok hugs to you

 

[Darkside]

I hope so. My mother is 94 is still despises her own father.

 

[forgetmenot]

As long as stay in her life and set boundaries and show her you care for her she will not resent you she won't Your mother situation maybe quite different from your daughters
just stay in her life guide her and tell her often how much you care about her she will come to see you for who you truly are a caring father

 

[Darkside]

That's what I am praying for ... and striving to be.

 

[Darkside]

I'm happy to tell everyone that my daughter called me yesterday. She was very nervous and her voice shook when she tried to talk. I was truly glad to hear from her and I answered the phone cheerfully - even though a part of me was a bit sullen. I just fought the urge to be parental. If she wants to talk about what happened at some future date that is fine, but I know she understands on some level so there was no reason to bring it up or to chastise her. I was just glad to hear her voice and I was proud of myself for not doing what my parents would have done in a similar situation. (which would have been to rub it in)

I've learned to appreciate small victories over my sometimes deeply engrained ways of thinking.

 

[forgetmenot]

I am so happy she called you and you should be proud of you for all you are doing for her hun hugs

 

[making_art]

Good job, Darkside! Ditto what forgetmenot said!