Sibling Incest

[GDPR]

Talk to your therapist and maybe if therapist is ok with it have your brother talk to you while therapist is present.

That will never happen. My brother lives too far away, plus even if he lived next door to me I would never want to do that.

I don't think there's anything to work through or work out with him. I need to do this for myself, on my own. He has his own therapist now, he's working on his own stuff finally, which I am really happy about. But I don't think I want any kind of relationship with him. I don't really need or want him in my life. He hasn't been for the past 10 years or so anyway.

The things he said in the phone conversation are something I can't ever just let go of or forget about. He has no remorse for the things he did to me. He doesn't even think there was anything wrong with what he did. I do believe if he was in my life and around me he would try to do the same things, even now.

I can care about him, I can feel bad for him too, but I don't have to have him in my life. I wish it could be different, but it can't be.Who knows though, maybe someday he will be different, maybe I will get a letter of apology or at least a morsel of remorse from him. But I have decided that until (or IF) that day comes, I'm not going to talk to someone that brags about sexually abusing me and says I liked it and it was just a 'normal' thing that happens in families.

 

[rdw]

The last phone call from your brother set you back. Looking after yourself and your mental health is your first priority now; he can look after himself however he chooses.

 

[GDPR]

Yes, it did set me back. And I don't think I have pulled myself all the way back up from it yet. Talking to him isn't worth how it makes me feel afterwards.

 

[MHealthJo]

Things that have happened can't be undone. But they can be dealt with in a healthier way and "engaged with" in a healthier way in our mind and in our life. We can make healthier, more correct statements about what happened, by what we do and by our commitment to this learning/ self-care/growth process.

So you're already doing the most major thing that you can possibly do in helping someone else, by setting the example and demonstrating what TO do.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Hi Lost_in_Thought,

Sorry I haven't been around in a while...

Just want to tell you that I agree with all you and the others have said.

You said that all your brothers and father even watched or participated in your abuse. THAT is not normal. Usually children do this exploratory thing one-on-one and are of the same age. What children do is not gang up on a younger sibling and what a parent would do if he ever came across that scene would be to make sure it never happened again.

I have a cousin who my therapist thinks was "groomed" for that sort of abuse. He probably thought it was alright to do as well, because of what he was exposed to most of his life. I assume that is what your brother thinks: he learned it from his father/siblings. I am sure that is what ALL pedophiles and sex abusers (or even other abusers) tell themselves...

I assure you it is not normal, it IS abuse, and you are NOT crazy. I think it's awesome that you told him it was wrong and abusive.

I strongly recommend you call your phone company and find out if you can get some kind of feature on your phone so you can block his number. I have done so with my parents. You can also block their emails, and their FB page if they have one. If you have a cell phone, you can block numbers through the phone or through an app. And don't ever pick up on a blocked number: and if a blocked number leaves a vm, as soon as it picks up you can hit 3-3-7 to skip to the end of it and erase it without listening.

If for whatever reason one or more of your abusers do get into contact or communicate with you again, I wold recommend you just hang up, leave, don't reply, etc...

 

[Lonewolf]

I think that you guys that can discuss this abuse are so brave, i have never felt safe enough to talk about it!! I live in hope that maybe one day i can!! Im sorry you went through it!! :facepalm:

 

[GDPR]

You said that all your brothers and father even watched or participated in your abuse.

Actually, everyone in the household was in on it. Even my sister.She told me recently she 'told' my brothers what to do to me because she didn't want it done to her anymore once she went through puberty.I asked her about it because I had horrible memories come up and wanted to know if they were real or not. She did apologize though.That doesn't make it ok, but at least SHE has remorse over what was done to me.

I have been working on all of this in therapy. It's weird how just talking about it is changing the way I see all of it. The hardest part about talking about it now is trying to find the right words to use when giving details. I'm always waiting for my therapist to be disgusted(with me), but that never happens. I will even ask him if he thinks it's disgusting and he says what THEY did was disgusting and I'm not.

My brother has finally stopped calling. He was calling over and over and leaving messages. I ignored them. At first I had a hard time ignoring them and thought maybe he would apologize or something, but they ended up being similar calls, so I finally just stopped answering. He starts out being nice but then starts yelling at me and telling me to shut the 'F' up and listen to him. I don't know why I did listen.My T said I was just repeating old patterns. I guess I was.

This is the 2nd week he hasn't called.Hopefully he won't call again.

 

[Darkside]

Thanks for the replies.

I was just starting to feel hopeful and positive and really was beginning to think I might be able to, I don't know, find my way through all of this somehow,and then the phone call took me right back down again.I'm not having the major anxiety anymore, that has subsided. It's been replaced with feelings of such deep worthlessness and insignificance. The same way my family has always made me feel.

I'm sure I will eventually get over this, but right now, it just really hurts and has really stirred up old feelings.

I feel a lot of anger reading this -- some terror because I was abused too, but mostly anger and rage. I want to beat the crap out of your brothers for doing this to you and causing you so much pain now. People do this because it was done to them and they never learned it was wrong, but good Lord -- grow up and take responsibility. Some people go through life feeling excessive guilt and shame -- over everything; and yet others feel none.

---------- Post Merged at 08:08 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:01 AM ----------

Actually, everyone in the household was in on it. Even my sister.She told me recently she 'told' my brothers what to do to me because she didn't want it done to her anymore once she went through puberty.I asked her about it because I had horrible memories come up and wanted to know if they were real or not. She did apologize though.That doesn't make it ok, but at least SHE has remorse over what was done to me.

I have been working on all of this in therapy. It's weird how just talking about it is changing the way I see all of it. The hardest part about talking about it now is trying to find the right words to use when giving details. I'm always waiting for my therapist to be disgusted(with me), but that never happens. I will even ask him if he thinks it's disgusting and he says what THEY did was disgusting and I'm not.

My brother has finally stopped calling. He was calling over and over and leaving messages. I ignored them. At first I had a hard time ignoring them and thought maybe he would apologize or something, but they ended up being similar calls, so I finally just stopped answering. He starts out being nice but then starts yelling at me and telling me to shut the 'F' up and listen to him. I don't know why I did listen.My T said I was just repeating old patterns. I guess I was.

This is the 2nd week he hasn't called.Hopefully he won't call again.

Depending on how long ago this happened, and the laws in your particular area, he could still be criminally prosecuted. Those voicemail messages (if you have them on tape) could be evidence.

If he starts calling you again (and the calls ARE a way of continuing the abuse because it is about control) tell him you are going to report him.

 

[GDPR]

The last time I did talk to him, he seemed concerned that I was going to 'get him in trouble'. He kept asking if I was going to call the cops for the things he did to me.

I don't plan on involving the police, but I do plan on threatening him with that if he does start calling again. I think that would work cause I'm pretty sure he's a fugitive and has been for quite a few years.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

See, right there, he KNOWS it was wrong because now he's afraid you're going to stand up for yourself and report him.

If he didn't think it was wrong, why is it not okay for you to talk about it? Abusers do try to get you to feel ashamed and helpless so you won't report them: that's part of their arsenal. I say let him stew. He's worried about HIS well-being and not yours, as usual, eh?

Good for you, not responding to him! Don't worry too much about staying on the phone - that was sort of reverting back to his role and your role. You might think of it as you froze because when he started talking like that you went back to how you felt back when you were little: helpless. He was and still is your abuser, but you are doing great: taking steps to NOT be a victim anymore!

Bravo! 8)

 

[GDPR]

I was thinking about that too,if he thinks what he did wasn't wrong,then why is he worried about getting in trouble for it.

My therapist said I need to know who's safe and who's not.He said my brother is dangerous and I need to stop all contact with him.He said it's not safe to talk to anyone in my family,including my mom.

He has never told me what to do before,he usually only makes suggestions.But in this case,I do believe he's right.

 

[Darkside]

I think there must be some sort of "Stockholm Syndrome" at work between abusers and the abused ... particularly where there are years and years of it in a family situation. I get that frozen fear myself and I think it is because I was told to, "stand there and take it and it won't hurt so bad." So even now when faced with a situation rife with the potential for abuse I "lock up."

I keep waiting for the day when I will break free of this. Sounds like you already have in some ways. Good for you!!

 

[GDPR]

I don't plan on involving the police, but I do plan on threatening him with that if he does start calling again.

He started calling again,and I threatened him with the police,like I said I would. If he calls anymore,I plan on doing something about it,I plan on following through with my threat,otherwise this is going to continue.

I feel really scared and unsafe.There's something very wrong with him.

 

[GDPR]

There must be something seriously wrong with my brother,right? Why on earth would he talk and brag about the things he did to me? It's bad enough that he did them,but to me,it's worse that he has no remorse at all and gets off on talking about it.

I'm having a hard time letting go of what he said the laast time he called. It was so bad I can't even write it here because it would surely be deleted.

It makes me sick.

Someone told me that my dad told everyone what he was doing to me,actually bragged about it. So I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I feel SO disgusted. And SO angry right now. And I woke up thinking about all of this.

If there was a way to seek revenge,I think I would do it right now.But,there's nothing I can do really except find a way to deal with this,find a way to let go and move on.

I HAVE to put an end to my brothers calls. Cause I will never be able to move on with him talking and bragging about it. All it does is take me down,over and freaking over.

I'm NOT going to put up with it anymore. He is just messing with my head,he knows all the right things to say to get me to feel like crap about myself,knows how to make me feel like it was my own fault,like I deserved it,and I am not going to fall for it anymore.

I know I have said all this stuff before,but I really mean it this time. I dare him to call again,cause he will be in for a big surprise.

 

[making_art]

Lost_In_Thought,

This is terrible that your brother continues you to abuse you in the most horrible way. Please try and block him from doing this to you. Would you allow a stranger to call you and say these things to you? This person who unfortunately is your brother has no more rights than a stranger does to abuse you. This just needs to stop! Do whatever it takes to stop him...

 

[GDPR]

Yea,you're right. I realize that myself too.I mean,I knew this before,but it has taken this long to completely sink in.Before,there was confusion and doubt about it,but I do know that it's definitely wrong and has to stop.

Family=abuse. That's what I have always believed and put up with. But after his last call,a light bulb tuned on and it finally 100% clicked in my brain or something. I still believe family=abuse,but now I see that's exactly why I need to stay away from my entire family.

I actually had already asked myself whether I would allow a stranger to say those things to me and had already realized that no,of course I wouldn't. I don't know why I had let it go on so long just because he is 'family'.

 

[making_art]

I'm not a therapist, Lost_In_Thought, but my understanding is that with all forms of abuse, it can be very hard to "see" or accept that the experience you are going through is really "abuse."

Here is a quote from an article by Margaret Ballantine and Lynne Soine that has taught me more about sibling sexual abuse:

Failure to Recognize Abuse, Fear of Disclosure
Many children fail to identify themselves as victims of sibling incest. Older brothers or sisters may take advantage of the sexual na?vet? of younger siblings to initially trick them into incestuous behaviors. Sexual behaviors are frequently couched in the context of play, and young victims are likely to find these activities pleasurable.

The identification of themselves as victims is further compromised by the complex dynamics of the sibling relationship itself. A same-generation, “special,” affectionate relationship with the offender may be welcomed by a younger sibling in a family typically characterized as chaotic, dysfunctional, and relatively inattentive to that child’s needs.

Consistent with other forms of child sexual abuse, there is an evolutionary aspect to the abuse such that in the early stages of the relationship, the sexual nature of the behaviors is less apparent, hidden in special hugs and games and play wrestling. A young na?ve victim is unlikely to recognize these ostensibly benign behaviors as inappropriate.


Typically, there is a progression of the behaviors, evolving over time to increasingly explicit, invasive, and perhaps even coercive sexual activities. These behaviors are more likely to be experienced negatively or as “wrong” by the victim. However, a victim’s participation in the activities to that point, the closeness in age with the offender, and the lack of a generational boundary between victim and offender too often lead to the victim’s confusion about responsibility for the behaviors. Clever offenders can use this sense of complicity to amplify feelings of mutuality and exacerbate feelings of guilt and shame for the victim, inhibiting the likelihood of disclosure and thus maintaining the secret.


As the abuse progresses and a victim grows aware of the meaning of the behaviors, he or she may become a reluctant participant and attempt to resist. However, the secret is protected because offenders use coercive strategies, such as threats of exposure and subsequent punishment and/or physical retaliation for exposure, to ensure the victim’s silence. Victims who feel guilt and shame in the context of a nonsupportive family are unlikely to feel sufficiently safe to confess misbehaviors for which they feel responsible.


There is evidence that many victims carry the secret into adulthood, remaining confused about issues of mutuality and consequently feeling ridden with guilt, shame, and low self-esteem (Ballantine, 2012; Carlson et al). The secret can be so buried that adult survivors fail to connect the incestuous behaviors of their childhood with current life problems such as depression, anxiety, poor job performance, and interpersonal difficulties.

November/December 2012 Issue Sibling Sexual Abuse — Uncovering the Secret
By Margaret Ballantine, PhD, MSW, LCSW-R, and Lynne Soine, DSW, MSW, LMSW
Social Work Today
Vol. 12 No. 6 P. 18

 

[GDPR]

I woke up thinking about this stuff today.

There's something I have never understood.When I was 15,I woke up with my dad on top of me. I don't understand how he got my clothes off ,was actually on top of me,doing what he was doing,while I was sleeping. How could I sleep through something like that? Of course,when I woke up and realized what was going on,I started to fight him.But it really bothers me that something like that could happen and I didn't wake up sooner.

I hate that sleeping makes me feel vulnerable still.I have been sleeping with weapons since I was probably 7 yrs old. I always thought they made me feel safe,but I had weapons when I was 15,but I didn't use them. Why didn't I? I guess they just give the illusion of safety.A false sense of security.

I'm sorry I keep bringing this thread up. This stuff just seems to keep creeping back in my mind.....

 

[Mari]

I am not sure if this applies in the USA but in Canada if you have a direct threat from someone you can access Victim Services through the local police department. You can have police check your place of residence for safety and offer suggestions on anything that can be done to make it safer. Victim services also offers counselling and a booklet on personal and home safety. This will at least reduce your chance of personal injury.

The thoughts are something completely different. No child should have the need for weapons but for some the reality is there because of their own personal history and experience. I sleep with weapons but the main problems are my thoughts and hyper vigilance. Weapons are only a help if they are something that can protect you and not something that can be used against you. It would be so nice to be able to sleep through the night and especially to have the nightmares stop. It is certainly understandable that you would have these thoughts and worries so do not hesitate to call the police if you feel threatened.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Ask your therapist what to do...

I don't blame you for fearing sleeping... You might find some relief from the fear if you ask the therapist for ideas...

*hugs*

Do you have a really yappy little dog? Or a big German Shepherd? It's comforting to have an actual alarm system, but if you don't have the money, a dog barking usually scares off potential break-ins.