Uncaring psychiatrist?

[forgetmenot]

i want to know why it is okay for a psych doctor to take away hope to say things to destroy a person mentality. I have said it before will say it again they hurt people they don't see the pain and suffering

I have to again to damage control again i wont' let her go back there i need to find a different psych doctor one that listens and hears i can't believe her told her that he doesn't see any hope of her healing

why did he say that why did he hurt her when she went there on her own accord with the help of her counselor went there for help and he destroyed her with his words dam him dam all of them. I have seen good doctors now my psychologist cares but i am telling you there are professionals that hurt to the soul they hurt I hope her counselor tomorrow will help me find a new psych doctor for my daughter she is trying to stay well she did not ask for this dam illness and when she reaches out for help she gets this words that make her want to end her life words that gave her such chest pain i thought she was having heart problems

i hate him i hate all of them this is why i want her home safe this is why i told her don't go but she went and the ass of a doctor prove me right delete this i really don't care anymore i am tired of these professionals they are not caring at all they are hurtful as i have known so many times before they hurt me now they are hurting her.

the hell with that i need to find a psych doctor a female one that will understand ptsd that will understand that rape is not healed by dam drugs but by compassion and understanding and the hell with him and his dam words. If it was his daughter would he have told her there was not hope. i don't think so. sorry i am shutting up now

 

[Andy]

Violet, Of course there is no excuse for a doctor saying that all hope is lost to a patient. That doctor should be instilling hope. I have come across my share of ignorant doctors as well but I have come across some good ones as well, so maybe it would be better if you looked for another doctor. I'm not sure how the Psychiatrist situation is there but it may take awhile so just make sure she has a medical doctor lined up in the mean time and if she needs to see a psychiatrist I would hope you would take her back to him in the meantime and just ignore all comments. I'd suggest the ER but you said you won't go there.
I'm sorry your daughter was told that Violet

 

[Murray]

The pain in your post is coming through so strong, I am so sorry that he said that to your daughter Violet. Hopefully her councilor will help you to find her a new doctor very soon. She (and you) must be in such pain. There is always hope. It can sometimes be a long struggle but no one should ever tell you to give up hope. Please take care of yourself.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Of course, you are assuming that he said what your daughter thinks he said or what she told you he said.

You know your daughter well enough to understand that there is a reasonable possibility he didn't say that at all, that it's just her interpretation, or that there was a specific context to the comment (e.g., there's no hope of her healing if she goes off her medication, or if she continues to abuse alcohol and rcreational drugs, etc.).

I find it hard to believe that any therapist would deliberately dash a patient's hope or inentionally discourage a patient.

 

[Banned]

Violet I'm sorry to hear of your pain and struggling. It's coming through loud and strong.

There is one part of your post that jumped out at me, and it's this one:

rape is not healed by dam drugs but by compassion and understanding

I think compassion and understanding are definitely helpful in helping someone heal from rape - there's no question that it's a traumatic experience. I do think time is a crucial factor as well and while medication cannot make the problem go away, it can make the pain tolerable until it dissipates to a level that one can live with.

I'm not sure if this is a psychiatrist or psychologist you are talking about - I'm assuming psychiatrist? I would encourage you and your daughter to continue to see your counsellors/therapists. Sometimes psychiatrists can be a little "cold shoulder" as they are approaching a problem from a medical/biological basis and as such they can lack compassion and empathy at times.

Hope is a really precious thing and I hope you will hold on to it. Your anger suggests to me that maybe you're giving this professional too much power in your lives? Don't let this person who has hurt you take away the only thing you feel you might have, which is hope. Nobody gets to take that away from you but sometimes our perspective can be skewed as well and we see things in a way that wasn't intended.

I hope this doesn't come across sounding cold...I know I myself can sometimes sound that way even when I don't mean it.

I do hope both you and your daughter will continue on a path to healing and see all the good work and progress you have made. As long as you are putting one step in front of the other you are moving forward and hope is always by your side. Just keep it close to you as it's a precious tool in recovery.

I hope you can feel better soon. I really really do.

 

[forgetmenot]

I am not assuming anything she went there for help as suggested by her addiction councellor he said that there was little hope for her to heal he said what he said and in any content he did not offer any help he belittle her taunted her asked her if she wanted to read reports of homewood the place she went for help she said yes she would like to read it and he said i didn't say i wouldgive it to you then he said do you want me to read what is written and he said it said i see little hope of healing for her. why the hell would her say that. he did not finish any sentence Do not defend him he does not care about her pain her healing I told her it doesn not matter what he says what matters is what i say and i say she will get well and she will get councilling and she will get her life back because i did and she can too dam it why do they have to hurt these people that are suppose to care why do they have to hurt
I will find her another dr as you say there are good ones out there i will try to find a lady doctor one that understands and perhaps one that she can talk to more easily she is young lots of time to heal to find a new doctor he may see no hope but that does not matter i see hope for her and i will never let him or anyone take that away from her. not like they did with me no i won't allow it. My anger is so full right now i am enraged so i have to keep that in control so i don't do any damage. i have to stay calm i have to move forward and do what is necessary right get her help she will get better her illness will not win it will not i am sorry for getting so angry but i have defended this doctor trying again and again to assure my daughter he has her best interest but now i need to listen to her and stop defending the person that attacks her i have to listen to her pain and help her thats all that i can do. Thanks turtle and STP and Murray and DR Baxter i will calm down and move forward and she will get well I will use whatever energy resources connections i have to make sure of it. i will ask my doctor to take her on as a pt as i do not need his help anymore i am strong now and he will make her strong and with when i am calmer i will talk to this doctor only when i know my anger is in control and it will be over then he will never hurt her again.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I am not assuming anything she went there for help as suggested by her addiction councellor he said that there was little hope for her to heal he said what he said and in any content he did not offer any help he belittle her taunted her asked her if she wanted to read reports of homewood the place she went for help she said yes she would like to read it and he said i didn't say i wouldgive it to you then he said do you want me to read what is written and he said it said i see little hope of healing for her. why the hell would her say that. he did not finish any sentence

How do you know this? Were you in the room?

 

[forgetmenot]

i talked with the coucillor in the room my daughters reaction told me everything her chest pain her inability to grasp on to any hope. I am not going to do to her what was done to me. I am not going to stand by and let professional destroy her. She knows that now I saw from the start his personality was cold was professional as you say there was not compassion no caring. When someone is fragile after being abused they need someone who listens who truly cares he did not knowhow to help her he knows medication there are good doctors out there and instead of defending him i need to accept what i saw from the start i ignored her cries i will not continue to do so. He said the words he was frustrated with her she went there finally accepting she needed help she called the doctor and made appt she call her councillor and got her to go with her and i knew not to go because i even feel this mans coldness and did not want to interfer. He said what he said for what reason who knows but it is over with her councillor and i will look into getting her the help she needs It is not the first time this has happened He has told me in private that he saw little hope he EDD is 40 i don't giveher that long with statements like this being said to her. Her coucillor who is young told him of her struggles her self harm her suicidal thoughts and wanted my daughter in hospital but he did not sign her in for help because he felt there was no help. Her addiction coucellor said she will try to get my daughter help else where she could not believe he did not admitt her either I am tired now i will not confront him not with the anger i have in me perhaps when i am calmer i will but why itwill only cause more problems for her. You know as well as i there are good doctors and there are some horrible ones i should not have defended him for so long i need to start listening to her more i am sorry for my anger outburst i need to use whatever energy i have now to get her stable to keep her safe and to get her help. someone who believes she can be helped.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

My point is that all of this is second hand information. I'm not suggesting that you should not try to support your daughter. I'm suggesting that we really have no idea what was or was not actually said in that room. And that jumping to conclusions about what your daughter told you is not necessarily the best help for her in the long run.

Furthermore, by her own statements, this psychiatrist did not say he has no hope for her but rather that the clinical notes from Homewood held out little hope for her:

he said do you want me to read what is written and he said it said i see little hope of healing for her

In other words, the doctors and/or nurses at Homewood felt the prognosis was poor. That's hardly surprising given the observed behavior while she was there and her resistance to the program. And indeed, with a dual diagnosis of mental illness and addiction, and her repeated history of non-compliance and relapse, it's hard to dispute that.

None of that means there is no hope but it does mean that you and your daughter need to face reality. If you rescue her every time she is upset by something a doctor tells her, what hope does she have? And this is something you have done repeatedly in the time you've been posting on this forum. As long as that continues, her progress will continue to be limited.

Sometimes, it's a fine line between support and enabling.

 

[forgetmenot]

Oh no he did not have to read that to her he did not have to take away hope what i am saying he in all the time i have gone in the room with her never once has he given her credit for staying out of emergency for staying out of hospital It has been over 6mths now since she has been in need of any assistance does he see that. Does he give her credit for calling to make an appt on her own for calling her addiction coucellor for following her addiction councillor advice no he brings a report out that is 6 mths old and reads there is little hope.
The coucillor was there in the room with her. I am not saving her i am not enabling her i have allowed this to go on for years now giving him the benefit of the doubt how much longer does this go on it is not working the connection between them he ask my daughter if she felt intimidated by him she could not tell him yes she wanted only for him to see how well she has been doing for so long but now that she has slipped up she was doing right thing getting in for help. She was facing reality on her own didn't want me there her councillor offered support to her she was finally getting it god You see what you want to see but i know how far she has come She ask me if it was okay to write her psych a letter
i said certainly do not use offensive words be precise in what you want to say and ask him if he feels there is little hope to please transfer you to someone who sees it
NO doctor no medical or mental doctor has the right to say that to a patient my daughter or not. she went there to get help not to get a report that is 6mths old rubbed in her face.
she went there without me on her own to get help what help did she get zero I am not enabling her i am doing something that should have been done along time ago i am listening to her and hearing I trust her coucillor and her take of the meeting thats all i can do someone that is already suicidal does not need to be pushed over the edge he push her. it had nothing to do with me Lets hope my doctor will take her on asi know i can see the difference between someone that cares and someone that doesn't he will help her i hope as he has help me. i have long ago let the professionals take over her care and each time i am left withthe aftermath IT only takes one special connection to have someone heal my twin found that now i need to get my duaghter that help too. when it is right miracles can happen take care Dr Baxter i am not enabling her i am finally listening and i am going to give her the power to heal herself with the help of a good doctor I have healed so much not fully i know but so can she with the help of a good doctor I hear your concern and whatever happens she will know i will not allow harm to come to her again she knows she has to do the work now i hope in writing the note to her doctor in her words he will understand the pain she is in. i am not going to read it i will let her drop if off she has a right to explain her pain and i hope she does it well. he was wrong terrible wrong
they are not just my words there is never ever a reason to tell a pt there is little hope in healing even if it may be true.

 

[Banned]

Violet, you are rambling so fast I can only skim, but what I would point out is a couple things...

First of all, I personally, would not want a doctor to ever, in any situation, give me false hope. That is the doctor I would have a much more difficult time ever trusting again, if at all. I would be hurt and devastated and be asking "Why did he let me believe there was hope when he knew or believed all along there was none?"

Second of all, Dr. Baxter has bolded a portion that says

he said do you want me to read what is written and he said it said i see little hope of healing for her

I'm not sure of contex but that one little "i" in there changes things. That specific doctor might see little hope of healing for her, but that doesn't mean someone else doesn't have a different strategy or abilities.

And, as Dr. Baxter has also said, but I'll re-iterate for the sake of re-iterating...there is a fine line between supporting and enabling. I think you want to believe that you've stayed on the "support" side of the line but when I go back through your posts all I see is enabling happening all over the place.

What other support does your daughter have in her life? You love her but you can't be her whole world. She has to learn to walk on her own, or if you prefer, she'll never get to the other side of the pool if you don't let go of her hands and let her swim.

 

[forgetmenot]

have i not done that she has gone on her own to this doctor her own to get help after 6mths i had nothing to do with it
she went and idid not stop any of it i am sorry you see it as enabling her no if i was enabling her i would have kept her home as i have always did in the past protecting her
i have stop that it is the professionals that have taken care of her
i cannot take care of her i know that
i am tired one has to know when the line has been crossed by a doctor as i said i don't care what circumstance it was no doctor has the right to make a patient feel there is no hope
he did that not me he took hope away from her with his words he did not have to read that to her after 6 mths of her staying out of the system
you see what you see i see her fighting trying to get a job trying to move out on her own and all these things are scaring her so she slips up
i see a fighter in her hopefully with the right connection they will use her positive attributes to help her move forward and not play on her negative ones
take care thanks for all responses ihope she finds healing in writing the letter and perhaps in getting someone that understand abuse god he doesn'thave a clue god it hrts to much now take care okay and yes i will make sure she has the supports in place for her to survive.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Again, he did not say there was no hope. Indeed, neither did Homewood - Homewood said there was "little hope" and you do not know the context even for that comment.

 

[Andy]

I think maybe you need to just go do something to relax Violet. I understand you are upset about this but there is no need for you to get this worked up. If you want to change doctors then tomorrow is a new day and concentrate on that, not what this doctor shouldn't have said.
You say your daughter is doing so much better but how well can she be doing if she just overdosed last week, and you keep saying she is in pain. That can't be that "well".
The comment he made, If he said it maliciously then I agree it was completely unethical. If he said it as a suggestion to her like "I'm not sure you will get better if you keep abusing alcohol/drugs" then it's kind of true. You may get mad at me for that but who can get better with a crutch that keeps tripping them up, know what I mean?

As for enabling, you and I had a conversation about that already and agreed to disagree so that's that.

I really hope you can come back when your less agitated and see through fresh eyes what all of us have said to you. It's not to be mean, or dismiss what your daughter is going through. We can all agree that your daughter needs help, these are just suggestions and thoughts from a different perspective. Hopefully you will keep yourself open to some of them.
Take care Violet.:support:

 

[forgetmenot]

the doctors at homewood did not read these words to her He did. good night i hope the councillor that was there that heard the context the words were said will report what happened She has no reason to lie to me We will get her help and i will back off like ihave done before with new set of eyes maybe she will heal more. you are right i am hurting way to much tonight tomorrow is another day A day of hope a day of change a day that will take her pain away. Ihope no one will ever have to walk in her shoes no one. I am keeping her alive tonight and will continue to keep her from ending her pain the wrong way.

 

[Banned]

Violet,

In any of the "helping professions" ie - medicine, psychotherapy, etc. the professionals are not allowed to treat members of their family. This is because as someone so close to the situation, they cannot be objective. It's impossible. The same thing is occurring here. You claim you are keeping her alive but are you? And at what cost? And what role do the professionals have anymore or have you taken their roles away?

I'm too tired to read through the whole thing again - is she at home or at Homewood? I think you need to continue to focus on getting help for your own issues and let your daughter's health care team decide the best strategy for her. Again, with her past behaviour combined with yours, and the lack of adherance to the treatment plan, it isn't a stretch to say her prognosis is poor. That's not taking away hope. That's making a prognosis based on evidence. Only your daughter at this point has the ability to change that prognosis over time. You can't change it for her.

You love her very much, but quite frankly I think you're smothering her and impeding her progress. She needs to continue to work with her treatment team and you need to step back and let your daughter be a human being who may stumble and fall and is far from perfect as we all do and are. Obviously what you are doing is not working so perhaps it's time to change strategies.

 

[forgetmenot]

i know i cannot treat her that is why i set up all the professional care for her. she has been stable except for the last few weeks she is unravelling she has been home with me last 6 mths homewood was over long ago it does not matter now Turtle as you said the social worker will help her see more clearly i am here to prevent her from doing something vry wrong. It was her councillor that wanted her to go in for help and she listened she did what she was told now the councillor sees for herself what has happened and she is doing what it takes to get help for my daughter as will i do what it takes to get her treatment. i have come so far i have let go so much but that doesn't matter what matters is her saftey.
i have my therapy and she has hers i see clearly what has happened and it won't happen again. take care she is doing better today i have chosen to go to work get my twin to come and watch her until her father comes home saftey is all i am concerned abt now her saftey.

 

[Yuray]

We know of your brother, your mother, your husband, your daughter, your sister, and some others close to you. We know of all the afflictions, indifferences, and (according to you), their disorders, and your continuous failing attempts at getting their lives to a standard you are comfortable with. Either the family dysfunction you describe, or you, has to be in error. The common denominator is you.

Since you have been here, 16 months, you seldom appear to be operating at, or close to peak performance (other than in your poetry). The focus of your posts seem to go from one family member to another regularily. Your posts generally conclude with the positive note that you will try harder to protect who you have to, yet your efforts are seldom rewarded.

Dr. Baxter has pointed out that basically you are hearing what you may want to hear, and not being objective. Just as your knowledge of what was told to your daughter is second hand, so are the things you tell us about your family. The proportion of the dysfunction you tell us about your family may be biased, and as such, comments made in here for your benefit, may be based on a false premise. To continue advising you on a course of action, or where there may be room for improvement seems to be redundant as you continue to defend a position where second hand information is the only evidence (in this particular post), second hand info from a young lady who is (according to all your 'in between the lines' mentions of her over the pat 16 months) well able to understand manipulation. Second hand information you are holding firmly onto despite considering you may be misinformed.

Your poetry allows me to vision you as a deep thinker, intuitive, enlightened, and full of clarity and interpretation of thought. When I read the chaos in your posts, I can't believe it is the same person. Does anything positive for you happen in therapy?

The road to hell is paved with good intent, how much more can you pave?

Hows the grandaughter?

 

[forgetmenot]

My g randaughter is beautiful thank you she is strong and her parents are loving parents

 

[Beth McHugh]

I personally know of a psychiatrist who has told at least two of his patients that they will never get better. Fortunately both persons concerned have left this doctor. What is the point of saying there is no hope when there is no way this man can see into the future. Mind you, mainstream doctors are also famous for telling people they will never walk, talk, think again, etc. so I guess you can expect this is the field of psychiatry.