Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers

[SueW]

Thanks Frazzled - I am glad you got my private message - I wasn't sure because I can't seem to find it in my sent items.
Re figuring out the best route to take - I am reluctant to advise because it is different for everybody. However, I have just read the following two books
When You and Your Mother Can't be Friends by Victoria Secunda
The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists by Eleanor Payson
Both give anonymised stories of people in similar situations and look at what possible options you may have.

Sue

 

[busybee]

Omg.. I read this.. and for the first time had a glimmer of understanding.. It was very confronting actually.. Hmmm to view myself couched in those terms..
I never really understood the term .. let alone pronounce it either. In my posts, I often wonder at the validity of actually labelling our behaviours. however if it can be labelled then maybe it can be prescribed.. a solution.

As a mum of 4 kids.. there were some traits listed here that I hang my head in shame. Not every part and every trait .. but certainly some. Something for me to discuss with my psychologist.
I reflect on past action as being a parent.. and demonstrating some of those behaviours. Visiting those actions on my children with "good intentions'
Is some of this a measure of a parent 'learning and growing up' ... you know like milestones that we are supposed to reach by certain ages. So we know better now than we did then? If you catch my drift..
I think I will print this out and ask my kids to give me some feedback.. I know and have acknowledged to them that at certain times in my life, as a mother I had not been a good parent. I have apologised to them for this, but is it too little too late.. Only time will tell.

Thanks for sharing.. B

 

[NakedWombat]

Have you been studying my mother? Not all of the above but a fair bit rounds up my mother.

 

[wheelchairdemon]

Fathers and brothers do it too. It is even worse when they work in a profession with status (law), and then abuse their position of power by writing letters to your doctor that say things like, her illness is

"nothing more than a charade manufactured to faciliate and legitimize the use of prescription drugs."

OR

My son who is a staff sargent with the O.P.P. and with many years of practical experience, and I with my limited experience around the courts, are convinced that Louise is a drug addict, addicted most likely to morphine.

I was not on medication of any sort when this letter was sent to my doctor. It now fills in another piece of the puzzle and better explains why doctors were refusing to see me, started accusing me of being addicted to something else (I didn't know what because they didn't tell me) and suggested I see a psychiatrist, go to street health, or the detox centre for help. I will admit, when I was being refused medical treatment for physical illnesses, I was breaking down in hysterical tears, but is that not what you call a human response?

Anyway, the issue of no longer being able to receive human treatment by most specialists has led my new, and very good Family doctor, to send me out of town for specialists appointments, and me to human rights to challenge the abuse and refusal to treat by Emerge.

If I could find a way to challenge my father and brother as well, I would. But I highly doubt I will get anywhere because of their rank and status in society. They're well respected and I have a life-long history of mental illness that, I now know was perpetuated by this narcissistic behaviour. Thank heavens I now have a folder full of letters that were written by my father from the time I was a little child, to prove it.

I now have the comfort of knowing I am NOT the problem after all. With guts and determination I have rebuilt my life, built up my self-esteem, and learned I am a person of worth.

The letters were found recently, but the recognition that the family was the problem, hit in the late 90's so I emotionally detached myself from them, and went out to apply my skills, seek my strengths, and recognize my abilities, by doing something else.

 

[victoriatcup]

To David J. Baxter ~

Thank you for posting this detailed description - I especially appreciate how detailed your article is. I have 2 questions, please.

1. Do you have an article like this that describes what challenges an adult daughter may face in life being raised by an N mother? I have read "Adult Children of N Parents" on the "Lightshouse.org" site. I found their description very helpful in understanding my struggles as an adult, but would be interested in reading one that is more detailed - as I found your article on N Mother's to be.

2. If this is mentioned in your article, I missed it. I find my mother "mimicks" my life. Whatever challenges I have in my life that I share with her, she suddenly has the same challenge - I go to the food shelf, she can't afford a roast; I email her discussing my own person growth in Christianity, she suddenly signs her emails with Christian words of God; my car needs repair, her car suddenly needs work. I do understand this is typical N behavior...it is all about her. I am wondering if you can expound on how an N uses "mimicking" behavior in relationships and/or those dynamics in their relationships with others.

Thank you
VictoriaTcup

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Please note: I am not the author of the article: It came from the blog Sanctuary for the Abused.

See also:

Getting Over a Narcissistic Mother

The Legacy of Distorted Love: Overcoming the impact of maternal narcissism

Narcissistic Parents: Contact or Not?

Adult Children of Narcissists: The Struggle for Self

 

[victoriatcup]

Thank you. I will visit the site that wrote the article and the others you suggested.

Victoriatcup

 

[Darkside]

Narcissistic mothers also cultivate neediness in their children. You can't get along without her because you are inadequate physically, socially and professionally. But when you truly need her help she's not there or takes great pleasure in pointing out that you must manage on your own - unless there is some benefit in the arrangement for her in which case you will get some help with strings attached.

 

[Katieann]

Wow...what a description of Mommy Dearest. You Go Girl! No - really. Just go. Period. And don't come back.
For all those children who are still trying desperately to love their narcissistic mothers...

Katieann

 

[W00BY]

I know it is rather a freaky read that list.

Like the opposite of winning the lottery, you go down the list and go yep, yep, yep YEP!

Just 2,3 and 4 on the list explain half my childhood experiences of my mum!

It's brought back a memory just reading it.

As a child I felt great resentment at my mother who when I got given gifts used to confiscate them for any old excuse but would put them where I could see them.

She would also force me to eat my sisters dinner if she did not finish it and if I refused things got ugly, but the one that list has really brought back is walking past a second hand shop one day and I was six at the time and all my cuddly toys where in the window of this shop, if you were to say to her now she would deny ever doing this.

My poor "Rupert the Bear" would say otherwise.

It fills me with such a sensation of anger and injustice just thinking about it!

*proud to be different*

 

[MHealthJo]

Wow...what a description of Mommy Dearest. You Go Girl! No - really. Just go.

I am so sorry for the smorgasbord of awful and confusing experiences you guys grew up with. It's just mindboggling.

Care and support to you all...

... and one huge shoutout at all the things you did well as children, special and good traits you had, and things you've achieved or worked for throughout life.... but weren't acknowledged and praised.

I'll be wishing and knowing that the further you go on your journey, the more you'll connect with pride about those things, and with good feelings you should have had at the time.

(In another thread someone also made me realise one of my fave resources could be great for those who grew up with these experiences. Google meditation oasis podcast, it is an Inner Child meditation, number 24 on their podcast list.)

@WOOBY - ugggh, how awful...

Yes, I can imagine that going down the list must be like checking off your numbers, in some sort of game of Horrible Bingo.

Although I suppose there will be some people reading it who may be realising for the first time what was going on in their family... so, I suppose, that could be some relief and the start of a positive journey.

Love to you all. (And all the lurkers as well )

 

[Darkside]

Mommy Dearest is an example of a ruthlessly narcissistic mother. I think a more subtle variety is more common - like the character Mary Tyler Moore played in Ordinary People.

 

[Katieann]

You know... I've had close friends say to me - just don't think about that anymore. Put it behind you; but if you haven't come to healthy terms with something, then it continues to haunt you. Which is different from casting an eye back and having a different take on a past scenario. Yes! That does happen... I've realized that my past is not static... because as you mature and go forward, your attitudes and perception of the past can change, which is the blessing. If you're looking back and seeing exactly the same thing - then maybe it's time to look inward and say: How are my thoughts about this different? What kind of mother would take your Teddy Bear? Or whatever other miserable thing she did... That tells you something really BIG... about her. And that is not you. Every time you think about a person who has done a terrible hurtful thing - try imagining them 2 inches tall. And when they're speaking... you really can't hear what they're saying. It's just so faint that it doesn't matter anymore.

Imagine how much space you have in your life when the tiny voiceless ones are out of the way...

Katieann

 

[MHealthJo]

Sometimes I wonder what the subtler ones look like. Or I wonder if it's possible to have certain things going on... but maybe not hardcore or all-consuming enough to be NPD. (Still hurtful, though.) If you've watched enough Everybody Loves Raymond, for example, you might wonder about Marie's case.

 

[Darkside]

Sometimes I wonder what the subtler ones look like. Or I wonder if it's possible to have certain things going on... but maybe not hardcore or all-consuming enough to be NPD. (Still hurtful, though.) If you've watched enough Everybody Loves Raymond, for example, you might wonder about Marie's case.

I agree. A selfish and over-involved parent can psychologically injure a child in the right circumstances.

---------- Post Merged at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:48 PM ----------

You know... I've had close friends say to me - just don't think about that anymore. Put it behind you; but if you haven't come to healthy terms with something, then it continues to haunt you. Which is different from casting an eye back and having a different take on a past scenario. Yes! That does happen... I've realized that my past is not static... because as you mature and go forward, your attitudes and perception of the past can change, which is the blessing. If you're looking back and seeing exactly the same thing - then maybe it's time to look inward and say: How are my thoughts about this different? What kind of mother would take your Teddy Bear? Or whatever other miserable thing she did... That tells you something really BIG... about her. And that is not you. Every time you think about a person who has done a terrible hurtful thing - try imagining them 2 inches tall. And when they're speaking... you really can't hear what they're saying. It's just so faint that it doesn't matter anymore.

Imagine how much space you have in your life when the tiny voiceless ones are out of the way...

Katieann

That's a Gestalt concept. I think we all have the power to look at the past differently and when we do it can change its appearance. I have so many regrets about things - stupid things I've said and done - but occasionally I am gifted with the ability to see them through different eyes and they change. When I can do this the ridiculous thing that causes me to shudder when I remember it loses its power over me. It is an ability that has come and gone during my life, but I try to cultivate it. Otherwise, my regrets will consume me.

 

[Bumblebean]

I couldn't believe it reading this! You have totally described my mother. I was just kind of skimming til I read this part = ?Don?t wash our dirty laundry in public!? which is something my mam used to say all the time, and I had to go back to the start and read all the way through. The really awful feelings and memories I got reading it made me kind of sick to my stomach and made me wonder if that kind of thing can cause PTSD or be part of what causes it. Also it finally makes sense why she always tried to stop me visiting my auntie, who was my dad's sister, and why she was so nasty when I came home again.

Are people a bunch of bits and pieces? What I mean is, can one part of a person's life set them up for another part of their life? Like, can a person start with something like HSP and then life and people start piling stuff on top of that and that person, me in this case, end up with depression and anxiety and maybe PTSD if my doctor is right about that? Oh, I hope that makes sense because I don't know how to ask it any better

Thanks for this totally amazing article

BB

 

[wheelchairdemon]

So here's a big question:

What do you do when you know you are a product of a narcissistic mother, she's dead now, you have copies of many if the letters she wrote to former psychologists and psychiatrists who were highly influenced by her opinion, and you've since been dismissed by the system?

Many of the letters she wrote to psychiatrists about me said how manipulative I was, how determined I was to get my own way, and they detailed out what level if grief my behavior was causing to my mother and the family. What really annoys me is that, as an adult she was writing these letters and sending them to my doctors and they were reading them without my consent. Worse, her opinion was often allowed to overrule mine and many times she managed to short-circuit the treatment plan because Mom had done her research and was insisting that I be sent to someone else of her choosing. I was left with little choice but to move to the other hospital and start over because, as the therapists said, "my family only had my best interests at heart."

I have my medical files and in one note by a psychiatrist it is noted that I was finally starting to learn how to express remorse about the grief I had caused to my family. Huh? why was i expected to be remorseful when my family kept driving me to the hospital, told them I was suicidal (when I was not), and got me locked up?

In another file, a psychologist had done all kinds of testing, got really positive results - not what he expected to see based on what my mother had said about me (he wrote this in my file) - and then decided he must rationalize how My test results didn't match the personality my mom had described to him. He finally wrote in his summary note that it was clear I was no longer mentally ill and that I had learned to replace the "sickness" with demands on the family through manipulation so I could remain dependent in them. My parents paid for the test so I guess the psychologist felt he must answer in a way that would be pleasing to them. .

That kind of stuff has caused more damage than I ever could have imagined. How is it that a psychologist can listen to the parent of an adult child who has made a point over and over again, that she does not give them consent to talk to my parents? Dad was a judge, mom was a physiotherapist, and my brother is a staff sergeant for the O.P.P. do if I were to guess, the medical professionals never stopped to think that it was wrong to talk to them because they were family, not working in these professional roles.

Even in some of the psychiatry notes, the doctors point out the professionalism if my family members and state that, because they turned out well, I must be the problem.

My confidentiality was violated repeatedly but now I can't get out from underneath the extreme damage that was caused by mom, dad, and my brother, meddling into my affairs. They really have damaged my reputation, that's for sure.

I've been out of the system for many years but mow I am denied health care for my physical disability issues; issues that are not believed because, just before Mom died she wrote the doctor and shared a very strong position paper stating how one could convert their mental illness into a physical disability so they could get attention again. That position paper about a conversion disorder was believed by the doctors, and because I don't agree, I have been dismissed for all forms of treatment.

There must be a way to get someone to listen and help to bail me out of the mess. I have been completely dismissed by the psychiatrists as being manipulative and no longer mentally sick, and by the physical doctors, mainly neurologists, as being mentally ill. A referral to both types of doctors (mental & physical) have been repeatedly made by my very supportive family doctor, but the referrals are being dismissed until I can prove I have, or haven't got a physical disability that's serious enough to require a wheelchair.

Any ideas how to solve this?

Louise

 

[David Baxter PhD]

What really annoys me is that, as an adult she was writing these letters and sending them to my doctors and they were reading them without my consent. Worse, her opinion was often allowed to overrule mine and many times she managed to short-circuit the treatment plan because Mom had done her research and was insisting that I be sent to someone else of her choosing. I was left with little choice but to move to the other hospital and start over because, as the therapists said, "my family only had my best interests at heart."

To clarify this part, it is not a violation of confidentiality for your doctor to receive information from a family member or someone else who knows you. Depending on your age and mental status at the time, it might well be a violation of confidentiality if your doctor disclosed or transmitted information about you to someone without your consent.

I would also not that most qualified medical or mental health practitioners would take such information into consideration but not necessarily accept anything from a family member as fact. If it fits the observed behavior or symptoms, it might well be viewed as confirmatory information but it certainly should not and would not usually override the practitioner's own diagnostic observations and/or valid test data.

 

[Darkside]

I couldn't believe it reading this! You have totally described my mother. I was just kind of skimming til I read this part = “Don’t wash our dirty laundry in public!” which is something my mam used to say all the time, and I had to go back to the start and read all the way through. The really awful feelings and memories I got reading it made me kind of sick to my stomach and made me wonder if that kind of thing can cause PTSD or be part of what causes it. Also it finally makes sense why she always tried to stop me visiting my auntie, who was my dad's sister, and why she was so nasty when I came home again.

Are people a bunch of bits and pieces? What I mean is, can one part of a person's life set them up for another part of their life? Like, can a person start with something like HSP and then life and people start piling stuff on top of that and that person, me in this case, end up with depression and anxiety and maybe PTSD if my doctor is right about that? Oh, I hope that makes sense because I don't know how to ask it any better

Thanks for this totally amazing article

BB

I think we are bits and pieces of many things. The ego tries organize the bits and pieces into a coherent personality and often therein lies the trouble; that is, bringing all the disparate pieces together and reconciling them into a picture of who we think we are, and who we want others to think we are, is very difficult when we don't see all the bits and pieces. What happens is the really distasteful parts tend to be submerged (repressed) only to appear later in some maladaptive behavior. So much depends upon our particular wiring, our experiences and the nurturing (or lack of it) that we receive as children.

For example, I have a lot of anger and resentment which I find unacceptable - or which was unacceptable to my family. So I repressed than anger rather than learn to accept it and to work through the causes. This is where things get complicated with layers and layers of rationalizations, projection and all sorts of other defense mechanisms which cloud the picture for me, but my point is that we are all a puzzle and we have to learn to accept that all the pieces may not fit the picture we are trying to make. For me, I've had to go back and remake the picture to more honestly fit who I really am rather than who I thought I "should" be.

Doing that takes some courage (not that I am particularly courageous), honesty (not that I am particularly honest) and, most of all, gentleness with myself. If I can't be gentle with myself how can I be gentle with others and how can I expect them to be gentle with me?

My $ .02.

 

[MHealthJo]

Louise I am so sorry for what you went through and are still dealing with.

I wonder if you would get any luck by looking into advocacy groups? I wonder if there is one that serves the interests of those who have suffered from the meddling of NPD? Or maybe a support group for adult children of NPD could offer some ideas or leads? Maybe others have had the same difficulties.

I'm also wondering what bodies serve as the regulators of health care or mental health care, and whether contacting them could point you in the right direction for undoing the effects of the meddling?