gooblax
MVP
I just don't deserve to keep seeing my psych. I've tried to think that maybe I could deserve it but I just don't. If I did then things would've gone better in 2009 when I was trying so hard to do the right thing.
- Thread starter gooblax
- Start date
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
gooblax, read what you posted again carefully.
You are obviously an intelligent woman but you have some blind spots. In this case, your premise is illogical and as a result your conclusion is also illogical.
gooblax
MVP
I don't see why that's wrong. In 2009 I tried to get help from him without being weak or annoying but he didn't help, and now although he's helping it's just techniques he's using because I'm less able to avoid weak annoyingness and I'm still not worth actually caring about.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
You keep going back to 2009. 12 years ago. How is that even relevant now?
He's helping you now. You have objective evidence of that.
He's helping you now. You have objective evidence of that.
gooblax
MVP
It's relevant because it shows that only a certain part of me is worth it, or that some practical things are worth helping but my stronger feelings aren't.
That -- to me -- is another example of your "fear of self." One's self becomes the object/focus of error/wrongness/worthlessness.
More generally, with OCD, there are areas in the brain that are overactive. And these areas are concerned with the feeling of something being wrong or "not just right":
With stereotypical OCD, these false error messages from the brain would be that your hands are contaminated or whatever. But with the just-as-common "pure O" OCD, the messages are often that oneself is the problem -- and so it feels that one deserves to feel guilty or worthless or, in your case, not deserving help:
In the case of relationship OCD, the false error messages concern another person as well.
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gooblax
MVP
They could be legitimate messages though. As a category it wouldn't just be restricted to false OCD messages.
Like I tell the pessimistic/philosophical/over-generalizing part of my mind: Do you want to be "right" or do you want to be happy?
And:
www.bphope.com
"The single biggest determinant in redirecting my recovery was learning to see fewer problems and more possibilities."
And:
6 Empowering Principles to See Fewer Problems & More Possibilities | bpHope.com
Even when bipolar disrupts your life, you have the power to find solutions and effect positive change! These resilience-boosting principles can help you
www.bphope.com
"The single biggest determinant in redirecting my recovery was learning to see fewer problems and more possibilities."
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gooblax
MVP
I think I've come up with the way I'm going to (re)raise it with my therapist next week. Being 'argued out' of my feelings isn't helpful for me - I'd like to address the root of it and find out:
1) If he would have pretended to care more if I'd been more overtly emotional in our sessions.
2) If any bit of it would have been real or all just pretend, and how might that ratio have changed depending on what I did.
3) How does he rationalise answers to 1&2 considering that being emotional over stupid stuff is weak and pathetic, and being weak and pathetic is detestable.
Or alternatively to 3 I could say that I'm sad/confused about why my feelings are less important than other people's - which was the point I set out to say that I was thinking of saying in this post but I quickly got distracted by the other stuff.
1) If he would have pretended to care more if I'd been more overtly emotional in our sessions.
2) If any bit of it would have been real or all just pretend, and how might that ratio have changed depending on what I did.
3) How does he rationalise answers to 1&2 considering that being emotional over stupid stuff is weak and pathetic, and being weak and pathetic is detestable.
Or alternatively to 3 I could say that I'm sad/confused about why my feelings are less important than other people's - which was the point I set out to say that I was thinking of saying in this post but I quickly got distracted by the other stuff.
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David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
It will be interesting to hear his responses to your questions. A word of caution though: Make sure you listen very carefully to what he says in response — take notes so you can review them later. There is a very real danger that your critical inner voice may distort what he says, given the emotional nature of the questions for you.
gooblax
MVP
I already think I'll skip Q2 cause I won't be able to handle the answer to that. I should at least try to give him a chance to avoid having to say something that will hurt that much.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Yes I agree. You don't have to address every question in one session and it is probably wise to avoid setting yourself up for hurt.
Addressing them in separate sessions will also give you time to digest what he says in answer to one question before asking another question.
Addressing them in separate sessions will also give you time to digest what he says in answer to one question before asking another question.
gooblax
MVP
I'd rather just ask them together. I don't want it half answered then have to wait 3 weeks wondering about the next bit.
But yeah I will have to be careful. We've had such a good run lately with him not saying much inadvertently upsetting stuff, but the July/August timeframe is when all our big issues have happened (ie. 2019's "I care about you as much as some clients, not as much as others" and the climax of last year's ignored email saga). And I really don't want a repeat of what happens during one of those big ruptures.
So that's why I think I'll start by explaining what I'm feeling upset about before asking the questions. It might make his answers more fake but it's either that or accidentally trap him into saying something that hurts my feelings.
But yeah I will have to be careful. We've had such a good run lately with him not saying much inadvertently upsetting stuff, but the July/August timeframe is when all our big issues have happened (ie. 2019's "I care about you as much as some clients, not as much as others" and the climax of last year's ignored email saga). And I really don't want a repeat of what happens during one of those big ruptures.
So that's why I think I'll start by explaining what I'm feeling upset about before asking the questions. It might make his answers more fake but it's either that or accidentally trap him into saying something that hurts my feelings.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
I still can't believe he said that.
gooblax
MVP
The interim counsellor I was seeing didn't seem to think it was a problem for him to have said it, and suggested that I need to not focus on 'caring' being a part of it. Mind you I think that was the last session I had with interim counsellor, because he then went out of scope to tie things back to my highschool crush rejection.
I've heard 3 different explanations from psych about why he said it, since I had to return to the topic a bunch of times before being less upset about it:
- because my lack of expression and openness makes it difficult for him to know what's going on with me,
- I forgot what the 2nd one was but know that there was one,
- that he was trying to say something neutral and didn't mean it the way I interpreted it.
I still believe he didn't mean for me to take away that message, but also believe that the message is true. And in continuing to see him it's just something I need to accept, although it's easier to accept sometimes than others.
A few sessions ago I asked him to avoid mentioning other clients during our sessions unless I bring it up - he agreed but I'm not sure if it's reduced or if it's just a coincidence that the times he's done it since haven't really been in contexts leading me to make those kinds of comparisons.
I've heard 3 different explanations from psych about why he said it, since I had to return to the topic a bunch of times before being less upset about it:
- because my lack of expression and openness makes it difficult for him to know what's going on with me,
- I forgot what the 2nd one was but know that there was one,
- that he was trying to say something neutral and didn't mean it the way I interpreted it.
I still believe he didn't mean for me to take away that message, but also believe that the message is true. And in continuing to see him it's just something I need to accept, although it's easier to accept sometimes than others.
A few sessions ago I asked him to avoid mentioning other clients during our sessions unless I bring it up - he agreed but I'm not sure if it's reduced or if it's just a coincidence that the times he's done it since haven't really been in contexts leading me to make those kinds of comparisons.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
That's also a rather surprising thing for a counsellor to say.
gooblax
MVP
He seemed to think I should be more perturbed by my psych saying that I was difficult to talk to. Which certainly was a bit upsetting but only because it means he'd like me less, however I completely understood why he would find me difficult to talk to. And it's something that's been in my direct control to change, unlike the client caring hierarchy.
gooblax
MVP
Feeling really blah today. Yesterday at work wasn't good, because a problem cropped up which I'd sort of anticipated and raised but had let slide. By the time 3pm came around my brain had totally switched off - someone tried to talk to me about a project where I have to make a decision but I could barely connect any thoughts together and felt like my head was full of cotton. I tried to say multiple times that my brain had switched off and it was "tomorrow's problem" which I don't think he was happy with but too bad. Except today is yesterday's tomorrow so I'll have to make a decision today instead, which I'm not looking forward to trying to communicate.
Then I recovered a bit after riding home fairly slowly, only to get stairwell ambushed by my neighbour about the water bill (it's a ridiculous amount of water usage again, so she wanted me to scan the bills and send them to our body Corp manager who can't do anything about it, but I'm thinking of looking into whether we can get some kind of water usage inspection done to all the apartments) and other topics for 40mins. Luckily my bf had gone to bed in that time, so I missed him by 2 minutes which was good for me to not have to talk to him after the long afternoon, but annoying because I know he gets bored and misses talking to me when I get home late so it's another 'failure' there (and I already had one earlier this week because of a last minute work thing, and I have 2 next week with another work thing plus therapy the following day).
So I was dreading work today and kept zoning out during my ride to work. It's not quite so bad now but it still feels pretty stressful cause of decisions I'm responsible for across multiple projects.
Then I recovered a bit after riding home fairly slowly, only to get stairwell ambushed by my neighbour about the water bill (it's a ridiculous amount of water usage again, so she wanted me to scan the bills and send them to our body Corp manager who can't do anything about it, but I'm thinking of looking into whether we can get some kind of water usage inspection done to all the apartments) and other topics for 40mins. Luckily my bf had gone to bed in that time, so I missed him by 2 minutes which was good for me to not have to talk to him after the long afternoon, but annoying because I know he gets bored and misses talking to me when I get home late so it's another 'failure' there (and I already had one earlier this week because of a last minute work thing, and I have 2 next week with another work thing plus therapy the following day).
So I was dreading work today and kept zoning out during my ride to work. It's not quite so bad now but it still feels pretty stressful cause of decisions I'm responsible for across multiple projects.
gooblax
MVP
Still off-topic but I'm feeling like a failure this afternoon. I saw on facebook that my local vaccination clinic was accepting walk-ins due to low numbers, so I went to find out if that was true. I could've got the AZ vaccine but not Pfizer. So, being the coward I am, I didn't get one. I figured it would've been a good time to get one because we have a 3 day lockdown anyway starting this afternoon so I wouldn't miss much if I wasn't feeling well afterwards. But no, I'm pathetic.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
No you're not pathetic. I'm still a bit leery about the AstroZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines. I had the Pfizer; my sons all had Pfizer or Moderna (the mRNA vaccines). Given a choice, I would have waited too, since I also have other health issues. They only use Pfizer here for cancer patients.
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