I know where you were coming from .... part of me feels that way too.
- Thread starter Darkside
- Start date
I know where you were coming from .... part of me feels that way too.
making_art
Member
Darkside,
Not sure if you are aware of this but in Canada the courts and law have done a dramatic turn where there is a non adversarial approach to child custody and all partners are entitled to and encouraged to have 50 percent custody of children. All parents must attend a "children and custody how to" program before custody arrangements are legally agreed upon and they are provided with counselors immediately and always (free of charge) to help parents when problems arise with shared parenting.
Not sure if you are aware of this but in Canada the courts and law have done a dramatic turn where there is a non adversarial approach to child custody and all partners are entitled to and encouraged to have 50 percent custody of children. All parents must attend a "children and custody how to" program before custody arrangements are legally agreed upon and they are provided with counselors immediately and always (free of charge) to help parents when problems arise with shared parenting.
An enlightened approach that we are slow to adopt in the US. Especially in the south where the courts still believe that mothers are naturally the better parent (tender years doctrine) and should have primary custody. It has led to an entire industry built around collecting past due child support. I've always felt that we wouldn't have such a problem with support if joint or shared custody was the rule and not the exception.
making_art
Member
I should also add that it is the "rights of the child" at the heart of this legislation. Parent wants and needs do not play a role into the mediation The child has a right to have access to both mother and father. Also it is an agreed upon custody so if one parent would rather the other had full custody then that is how it would be.
As with all things there are some problems with this and some that are yet unseen.....we will see them as the children grow and here from them as adults.
But I do agree that in most cases where parents have grown apart or no longer love each other then it is best for the child to have access to the dads in a parenting role.
As with all things there are some problems with this and some that are yet unseen.....we will see them as the children grow and here from them as adults.
But I do agree that in most cases where parents have grown apart or no longer love each other then it is best for the child to have access to the dads in a parenting role.
My son is going to stay with me. But his mother doesn't want to go to court to modify child support legally (she just wants us to agree informally) and refuses to turn over the money she took from him. Instead, she said she will pay his college tuition herself and just let her know how much. She's never paid a bill in her life so I'm not going to hold my breath. But at least he's here with me where I think (and pray) he has a chance to learn to lead a normal life. I think the admissions people will work with us.
That is wonderful news for you and your son! Best wishes for a bright future for you both.
Interesting and troublesome that she does not want to legally modify the child support arrangements.
Interesting and troublesome that she does not want to legally modify the child support arrangements.
forgetmenot
MVP
Perhaps in time she will see it is the best interest of her children to have joint custody but for now you have your son and that is all that matters.
I do hope that somehow you are able to get his mother to do as she said pay for his tuition if only to show her son that she does care abt him and not about the money
If not i know you will find a way to get all the supports he needs .
I do hope that somehow you are able to get his mother to do as she said pay for his tuition if only to show her son that she does care abt him and not about the money
If not i know you will find a way to get all the supports he needs .
WOW! That's my initial response to your situation Darkside. One of the things I'm learning this year is that you reap what you sow. And, we should treat people in the manner we want to be treated. It's already been said, the money is gone. Don't beat a dead horse about it. If this was a stranger, I would be all for going through legal channels. This is your ex-wife and you are full of anger towards her and rightfully so. At the end of the day though, who benefits?
I agree with setting up a trust for your son that you control. If at all possible and he's willing and you're able, invite him to live with you until he's ready to be on his own. Do not talk bad about his mother in front of him or behind his back. As much as he is able, he will formulate his own opinion about her. As much as you would like to rake her over the coals with her family, do not do so. Be the parent you would want to have if the tables were turned.
Last year, I would have wanted to strike back. However, I'm in my own situation with a soon to be ex-relative. And, it is costing me money to resolve it through legal channels. Both of us believe we are right for completely different reasons. At the end of the day, while we will go our separate ways, we have both lost. And, that grieves me because we have endured so much loss in recent years.
Salvage what you can; be content with what you have; and move on.
I agree with setting up a trust for your son that you control. If at all possible and he's willing and you're able, invite him to live with you until he's ready to be on his own. Do not talk bad about his mother in front of him or behind his back. As much as he is able, he will formulate his own opinion about her. As much as you would like to rake her over the coals with her family, do not do so. Be the parent you would want to have if the tables were turned.
Last year, I would have wanted to strike back. However, I'm in my own situation with a soon to be ex-relative. And, it is costing me money to resolve it through legal channels. Both of us believe we are right for completely different reasons. At the end of the day, while we will go our separate ways, we have both lost. And, that grieves me because we have endured so much loss in recent years.
Salvage what you can; be content with what you have; and move on.
She is a big bluffer. She loves to talk big but is terrified of any real authority like a Judge. She probably knows that if a Judge saw in black and white some of what she has done he/she would have choice words for her.
But the thing is that our divorce decree has all sorts of requirements that no longer apply but I am still bound by them unless I request a modification. I had to have life insurance to secure the payment of child support. That only applies through age 18 and the last one will be 18 in 3 months and graduate from high school in 9 months.
She is also saying that my son is over 18 and she has no obligation to provide any support for him. At her request I have been supporting him for 2 years past his 18th birthday. She thinks the same rule doesn't apply to her.
Anyway, I've already decided to file and I've explained to my son that I am not trying to do anything to hurt her (he is very protective of her) but I have to do what the law requires. The law in my state says that changes made to child support by the parties are not binding unless approved by a court.
always best practice - i's dotted and t's crossed. Good luck moving forward
There's nothing that makes me more angry than a flagrant liar. Someone who has learned how to bully and bluff their way through it and is never confronted or called on it. Someone who is shrewd enough not to lie when it really matters or if they think they might get caught. (like to a boss) Someone well schooled in the art of projecting blame.
The second thing that makes me angry is someone who steals and then lies about it or blames other people for their dishonesty.
This person is my ex-wife. It really infuriates me that she would literally steal a child's college money and then lie about it. What sort of person would do such a thing and why would a child not see through it? (Rhetorical question I know -- of course a child is not going to believe that about their own parent - at least not right away.)
Part of me wants very badly to confront her and stick her nose in it by taking her to court or calling her friends and family. Part of me wants to play along with it and give her enough rope so that she hangs herself. So far I've been playing along with it, but I'm losing patience.
She is supposed to pay my son's school tuition and buy his books next Wednesday. My guess is that it won't happen but it will be everyone's fault but her own. If that is true I hope she rots in hell.
The second thing that makes me angry is someone who steals and then lies about it or blames other people for their dishonesty.
This person is my ex-wife. It really infuriates me that she would literally steal a child's college money and then lie about it. What sort of person would do such a thing and why would a child not see through it? (Rhetorical question I know -- of course a child is not going to believe that about their own parent - at least not right away.)
Part of me wants very badly to confront her and stick her nose in it by taking her to court or calling her friends and family. Part of me wants to play along with it and give her enough rope so that she hangs herself. So far I've been playing along with it, but I'm losing patience.
She is supposed to pay my son's school tuition and buy his books next Wednesday. My guess is that it won't happen but it will be everyone's fault but her own. If that is true I hope she rots in hell.
Don't blame you for how you feel about her.
I am so sorry you have to go through this. I have had similar games with my mother. It may take time, but you are right: eventually her son (and others) will see her mask slip. She won't get away with it forever. I hope you get lots of time to get your anger out with your therapist that you mentioned. Or by yourself (as in meditation, physical activity, etc)... It's very tricky to be able to talk to someone about this because some people will pass the information on, with some form of triangulation. I suppose if you had a best buddy from your childhood that lives in another state and your ex wife does not know he exists or doesn't know his phone number.
Personally, I do have relatives that KNOW about my mom. Everything. Not all of them "know," and those relatives I don't tell about important things. Essentially, I've told my relatives that if something gets out, something gets out. I don't hold them personally responsible. It's not their fault (because they wouldn't intentionally let something slip) and sometimes my mother finds out in other ways (which is why I don't mention important life-changing things on my Facebook wall anymore - someone, don't know who, has passed information on to them, even though I blocked them). The sad part is, some of my relatives still have my best interests in mind when they pass things on to my mother. They just strongly feel that she should know that I need help. They don't get that when I'm vulnerable, that's the LAST thing I want, is her stickin' her nose in my business. She's like a vulture, biding her time. She will swoop in and "rescue" me and try to control everything and make my life miserable again. No thanks!!!
You are totally justified in your anger. Hopefully you can let it out somewhere out of the sight of your children. Of course, you probably are familiar with this, but if you show your anger, then your ex can probably say to your son and daughter, "See? He hates me!! Poor me!! Children come and take my side, because look how much your father hates me!! Can't you see how horrible a man he is??? I tried to do everything for him, but he just wouldn't stay with me. He abandoned me, and he abandoned the family. Blah blah blah blah..." You know, the usual "flip and blame" projection maneuver.
The worst you can do to her, seriously, is not react (at least not in front of her or the kids or other flying monkeys who report back to her)... Nothing makes a person who feeds off the negative energy of other people get more angry and upset. It will mystify them and get them to try harder and harder to get a reaction from you. It might even make their head explode.
I like your plan to "wait and see." Wait and see Karma come round behind her and blind-side her upside her head, and her mask will fly off and everyone will see what she really is. I've seen it happen myself, or I wouldn't be so sure.
I wish you and your family well. If not now, then certainly in the future.
I am so sorry you have to go through this. I have had similar games with my mother. It may take time, but you are right: eventually her son (and others) will see her mask slip. She won't get away with it forever. I hope you get lots of time to get your anger out with your therapist that you mentioned. Or by yourself (as in meditation, physical activity, etc)... It's very tricky to be able to talk to someone about this because some people will pass the information on, with some form of triangulation. I suppose if you had a best buddy from your childhood that lives in another state and your ex wife does not know he exists or doesn't know his phone number.
Personally, I do have relatives that KNOW about my mom. Everything. Not all of them "know," and those relatives I don't tell about important things. Essentially, I've told my relatives that if something gets out, something gets out. I don't hold them personally responsible. It's not their fault (because they wouldn't intentionally let something slip) and sometimes my mother finds out in other ways (which is why I don't mention important life-changing things on my Facebook wall anymore - someone, don't know who, has passed information on to them, even though I blocked them). The sad part is, some of my relatives still have my best interests in mind when they pass things on to my mother. They just strongly feel that she should know that I need help. They don't get that when I'm vulnerable, that's the LAST thing I want, is her stickin' her nose in my business. She's like a vulture, biding her time. She will swoop in and "rescue" me and try to control everything and make my life miserable again. No thanks!!!
You are totally justified in your anger. Hopefully you can let it out somewhere out of the sight of your children. Of course, you probably are familiar with this, but if you show your anger, then your ex can probably say to your son and daughter, "See? He hates me!! Poor me!! Children come and take my side, because look how much your father hates me!! Can't you see how horrible a man he is??? I tried to do everything for him, but he just wouldn't stay with me. He abandoned me, and he abandoned the family. Blah blah blah blah..." You know, the usual "flip and blame" projection maneuver.
The worst you can do to her, seriously, is not react (at least not in front of her or the kids or other flying monkeys who report back to her)... Nothing makes a person who feeds off the negative energy of other people get more angry and upset. It will mystify them and get them to try harder and harder to get a reaction from you. It might even make their head explode.
I like your plan to "wait and see." Wait and see Karma come round behind her and blind-side her upside her head, and her mask will fly off and everyone will see what she really is. I've seen it happen myself, or I wouldn't be so sure.
I wish you and your family well. If not now, then certainly in the future.
Ugggghh. I am really sorry Darkside.
Personally, I don't believe these people experience any sort of genuine happiness or joy or connection in their lives.
It's still unfair and horrible what they do, and I wish consequences could come more swiftly and easily to them without extra stress for those around them. But I believe either way, no matter what, they still get punished by having a total lack of genuine identity and personhood, and as such cannot experience any love, connection, or genuine happiness or relating.
Personally, I don't believe these people experience any sort of genuine happiness or joy or connection in their lives.
It's still unfair and horrible what they do, and I wish consequences could come more swiftly and easily to them without extra stress for those around them. But I believe either way, no matter what, they still get punished by having a total lack of genuine identity and personhood, and as such cannot experience any love, connection, or genuine happiness or relating.
Thanks guys. I needed to vent a little. But as angry as I feel I cannot let that feeling, or what she says, run my life. If I do I will have stooped to her level.
Sometimes there is nothing fair or just about what happens in this world. People get away with lying and stealing (or worse) all their lives. Some get caught. There is no rhyme or reason why. She's always been this way and she isn't going to change. I have to work around it to do what I know should be done. (Getting my son through school.)
But JGJB is so right. Striking back at her only makes her the victim which is what she wants. That is how she manipulates. I think I am doing well to stay out of her "racket" and be an adult. If she chooses to be petty I think my children will someday look at me and think, "dad always tried to do what was right."
That's the only thing that is important to me.
My son and I filled out the financial aid application and he qualifies for a Pell Grant which will pay a good bit of his tuition. We also found about $550 in savings bonds his grandparents gave him as a child. So if she can't come up with the money next week at least I know he can enroll.
Sometimes there is nothing fair or just about what happens in this world. People get away with lying and stealing (or worse) all their lives. Some get caught. There is no rhyme or reason why. She's always been this way and she isn't going to change. I have to work around it to do what I know should be done. (Getting my son through school.)
But JGJB is so right. Striking back at her only makes her the victim which is what she wants. That is how she manipulates. I think I am doing well to stay out of her "racket" and be an adult. If she chooses to be petty I think my children will someday look at me and think, "dad always tried to do what was right."
That's the only thing that is important to me.
My son and I filled out the financial aid application and he qualifies for a Pell Grant which will pay a good bit of his tuition. We also found about $550 in savings bonds his grandparents gave him as a child. So if she can't come up with the money next week at least I know he can enroll.
I enrolled my son in school on August 20th and classes started last week. His mom paid his tuition by phone with the cashier's office. We found out today that the payment she made was not good. The bank returned it.
She also gave him a check yesterday to buy books. We took that check to her bank to cash it today and the bank said the check was no good. (I have dealt with her before ... I was not about to deposit that check into my bank account or his.)
He did get some financial aid that went toward his tuition, but he still owes over a $1,000. I ended up buying his books.
Now she is making a fuss saying I am a control freak and that I am making a big deal out of something that was just a mistake. (she didn't make a deposit on time.) While that is possible, and the check may clear tomorrow, this is just more irresponsibility on her part.
I know how to deal with this, but my son does not want anything to happen to his mom so I really cannot do anything except wait and hope she makes good on this.
It is hard to describe what this does to me. I feel victimized, angry and yet I am grieving for my children who have had to live with these lies all their lives.
When we were dating she was arrested 3 times for passing bad checks. I did not find out about it until after we were married. She stayed in financial trouble while we were married. I had to give her cash for groceries because I could not trust her with a checkbook. Now she has done the same thing to her own child.
She also gave him a check yesterday to buy books. We took that check to her bank to cash it today and the bank said the check was no good. (I have dealt with her before ... I was not about to deposit that check into my bank account or his.)
He did get some financial aid that went toward his tuition, but he still owes over a $1,000. I ended up buying his books.
Now she is making a fuss saying I am a control freak and that I am making a big deal out of something that was just a mistake. (she didn't make a deposit on time.) While that is possible, and the check may clear tomorrow, this is just more irresponsibility on her part.
I know how to deal with this, but my son does not want anything to happen to his mom so I really cannot do anything except wait and hope she makes good on this.
It is hard to describe what this does to me. I feel victimized, angry and yet I am grieving for my children who have had to live with these lies all their lives.
When we were dating she was arrested 3 times for passing bad checks. I did not find out about it until after we were married. She stayed in financial trouble while we were married. I had to give her cash for groceries because I could not trust her with a checkbook. Now she has done the same thing to her own child.
And she shows her true colours yet again. You know that cheque won't be good tomorrow. I guess she can call you whatever she chooses however that doesn't make it true so you'd be wise not to buy into her verbal abuse again.
How is your son liking school? How is he adjusting to his new life? And how are you adjusting too?
How is your son liking school? How is he adjusting to his new life? And how are you adjusting too?
Yes, we tried again yesterday afternoon after she sent a text message saying it was a mix-up and she had made a deposit to cover it. We are going back again this afternoon and try to cash it again, but I'm pretty sure the check will never clear. She doesn't have his money and never did. That money was gone within weeks of deposit into her account.
Matt is adjusting and I think he is much better off here. I'm far from perfect, but we have a good relationship. I don't ridicule or make fun of him and I spend time talking to him. To me he seems to be showing signs of maturity. He now has his beginner's permit so I am going to teach him to drive a car. He wants to get some exercise and lose some weight (he is 6'2" but weights about 230 lbs.)
It has affected my social life a little to have him here all the time, but this is a sacrifice I have to make to give him a chance at a normal life where can live on his own. Once he is able to drive a car it should be okay because he will be able to come and go and get to and from school. Right now I have to drive him.
This is the right thing to do even if it is a little inconvenient.
It sounds like your son is making wonderful progress living with you. That is fantastic to hear! What a wonderful opportunity to strengthen the relationship between you and your son. Best of luck with that cheque cashing 
.
.It sounds like your son is making wonderful progress living with you. That is fantastic to hear! What a wonderful opportunity to strengthen the relationship between you and your son. Best of luck with that cheque cashing
Thank you. That means a lot to hear it from someone else. I think I made it sound a little like this is a chore. It is not. It has forced me to make some changes in my life but I am doing it with joy. I know he is better off here. He still loves his mom, and I have to fight my urge to say what I think about her, but he is free to make up his own mind. I won't litter it with my garbage.
The check never cleared. We went 3 times to the bank. The last time was Friday about noon. She kept apologizing but after the third time I could not restrain myself and told her she was irresponsible. Now, of course, she is the victim because I am so "mean."
Anyway, she told me she was driving up here and would bring me cash. My daughter showed up last night with the cash for his books. I'm pretty sure my ex-wife's mother bailed her out because she has before. She also paid his tuition not with my son's college money she claims to have set aside, but with her credit card. (Probably her mother's credit card.) Just more proof that the money is gone.
But the good news is he did receive a partial scholarship and she paid the full tuition so he has a credit balance at the school. That means he has enough money to enroll next semester and buy books. Next year will have to take care of itself when it gets here.
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