forgetmenot
MVP
Trustee is what i had stated Darkside as well it is the only way to protect your sons interest it works i can tell you that much a trustee has only your SONS interest ok
- Thread starter Darkside
- Start date
The way it stands now there is nothing to be trustee over. If any of his money is left (which I doubt) it is in her possession. She is not going to give it up willingly and my son isn't going to support any action against her.
I'm not going to be grandiose or overly dramatic about it. I want him to stay here for a month and see how things go. In a few weeks, if all goes well, I will bring up the subject of living here permanently. Then I can address the money.
What I suspect is that in a few weeks he is going to want to go back to his mom's house. But even then maybe I can have a positive influence on him. That's my goal anyway.
I'm not going to be grandiose or overly dramatic about it. I want him to stay here for a month and see how things go. In a few weeks, if all goes well, I will bring up the subject of living here permanently. Then I can address the money.
What I suspect is that in a few weeks he is going to want to go back to his mom's house. But even then maybe I can have a positive influence on him. That's my goal anyway.
until her house of cards comes crashing down on her head there's not much you can do. Have a great month with your son - that's worth more than money anyway!
She keeps finding ways to keep that from happening. She's been in and out of financial trouble since she was 18 years old. She's 52 now.
I really don't care what happens to her ... only what happens to my children - particularly the two youngest ones who are still dependent on her. My 17 year old daughter has become a tyrant. She will have deep emotional scars to heal later in life - if she is wise enough to see it.
Here's what has happened today. I want to know what you guys think about it.
My son has been here for a month and he has been adjusting well. I try to find things to do, but I have not pushed him. He says he is comfortable and happy here. His mother has been talking about coming to pick him up so two nights ago I decided to talk to him about staying here permanently. He immediately liked the idea, but I told him to think about it for a couple of days. Last night he said he wanted to stay here and go to school this year and he was going to call his mother today and talk to her about it. We talked about what her reaction might be and he was very perceptive. He knew she would be emotional. When I came home from work today he had spoken to her and his sister. He said they were both upset and shortly after that I got a text from my daughter.
This is what her text message said:
I have not heard anything from my ex-wife but she has obviously enlisted the support of my daughter to fight by proxy. I did not respond to the text and I will not.
My son told me a little about his conversation with his mother ... and later his sister. The gist of it is that, I am manipulative, sneaky, mean and that he is abandoning them and I have been trying to get one of them away from my ex-wife because I lost custody in the divorce. (I didn't contest custody - I believed it was best that they stay in the home they knew with their mother.) He said they told him I am a bad person and that he will suffer if he stays here ... not to mention that they will suffer if he does not come home. They also told him things like I live in a bad neighborhood and he will be in danger if he lives here and goes to school.
His reaction to all of this was really something. Perceptive, mature and rational - for a 20 year old with Aspergers. He was not at all rattled by anything they said. He said he knew their reaction was emotional and not rational, and he told them, "I am old enough to decide where I want to live and I want to live with my dad now." He said he also told them it was not because he was unhappy living with them or because of anything they had done, but because he just wanted to be with his father. Their response was that I was "stealing" him from them. (Their words - as though he is property.)
I have been concerned about him staying at his mother's house for awhile now. She spends all her time and money on my daughter and does not have enough left over to teach him to drive, buy his prescriptions, take him to the dentist or buy him clothes. I send her $525.00 a month (US) for child support but very little of that is spent on him. When I found out in June that my ex-wife had taken his college savings money. (see the OP) I really thought it was time for him to move here. So I am motivated to get him away from there and with me. Not just because of the money but also so that he can begin to learn how to take care of himself. He doesn't even know how to do a load of clothes or wash dishes.
I'm happy my son is dealing with this so well. He may decide to go back, and I told him that was fine if that is what he wanted to do, but I think he is determined to stay here.
On the other hand ... I am not dealing with it so well. About one-half of me is okay with this but the other half is reeling. Whenever I have dealings with people who are willing to go to such emotional extremes including blackmail I begin to question myself. So rattling around in my head are questions like
maybe I am a monster
maybe I am manipulative
maybe I am a bad person
maybe I am wrong about this
I guess this is normal when faced with this kind of thing and it really isn't about me so I am trying to plan how I will deal with it when it comes time to discuss it with his mother. My goal is to NOT engage her on an emotional level. To only discuss the merits - pros and cons - of him living here and what it is that he wants to do. If she and my daughter want to accuse me of "stealing" my son or brainwashing him I will have to do my best to not stoop to that level.
That is going to be hard because of the sheer force of the emotion. They will do everything they can to trigger extreme emotions in me and I have got to resist the temptation to get down on that level.
Any words of advice or encouragement (or criticism for that matter) are appreciated.
My son has been here for a month and he has been adjusting well. I try to find things to do, but I have not pushed him. He says he is comfortable and happy here. His mother has been talking about coming to pick him up so two nights ago I decided to talk to him about staying here permanently. He immediately liked the idea, but I told him to think about it for a couple of days. Last night he said he wanted to stay here and go to school this year and he was going to call his mother today and talk to her about it. We talked about what her reaction might be and he was very perceptive. He knew she would be emotional. When I came home from work today he had spoken to her and his sister. He said they were both upset and shortly after that I got a text from my daughter.
This is what her text message said:
I have not heard anything from my ex-wife but she has obviously enlisted the support of my daughter to fight by proxy. I did not respond to the text and I will not.
My son told me a little about his conversation with his mother ... and later his sister. The gist of it is that, I am manipulative, sneaky, mean and that he is abandoning them and I have been trying to get one of them away from my ex-wife because I lost custody in the divorce. (I didn't contest custody - I believed it was best that they stay in the home they knew with their mother.) He said they told him I am a bad person and that he will suffer if he stays here ... not to mention that they will suffer if he does not come home. They also told him things like I live in a bad neighborhood and he will be in danger if he lives here and goes to school.
His reaction to all of this was really something. Perceptive, mature and rational - for a 20 year old with Aspergers. He was not at all rattled by anything they said. He said he knew their reaction was emotional and not rational, and he told them, "I am old enough to decide where I want to live and I want to live with my dad now." He said he also told them it was not because he was unhappy living with them or because of anything they had done, but because he just wanted to be with his father. Their response was that I was "stealing" him from them. (Their words - as though he is property.)
I have been concerned about him staying at his mother's house for awhile now. She spends all her time and money on my daughter and does not have enough left over to teach him to drive, buy his prescriptions, take him to the dentist or buy him clothes. I send her $525.00 a month (US) for child support but very little of that is spent on him. When I found out in June that my ex-wife had taken his college savings money. (see the OP) I really thought it was time for him to move here. So I am motivated to get him away from there and with me. Not just because of the money but also so that he can begin to learn how to take care of himself. He doesn't even know how to do a load of clothes or wash dishes.
I'm happy my son is dealing with this so well. He may decide to go back, and I told him that was fine if that is what he wanted to do, but I think he is determined to stay here.
On the other hand ... I am not dealing with it so well. About one-half of me is okay with this but the other half is reeling. Whenever I have dealings with people who are willing to go to such emotional extremes including blackmail I begin to question myself. So rattling around in my head are questions like
maybe I am a monster
maybe I am manipulative
maybe I am a bad person
maybe I am wrong about this
I guess this is normal when faced with this kind of thing and it really isn't about me so I am trying to plan how I will deal with it when it comes time to discuss it with his mother. My goal is to NOT engage her on an emotional level. To only discuss the merits - pros and cons - of him living here and what it is that he wants to do. If she and my daughter want to accuse me of "stealing" my son or brainwashing him I will have to do my best to not stoop to that level.
That is going to be hard because of the sheer force of the emotion. They will do everything they can to trigger extreme emotions in me and I have got to resist the temptation to get down on that level.
Any words of advice or encouragement (or criticism for that matter) are appreciated.
I read a statement awhile ago in an article or post that essentially said " what other people say or think about you is none of your business". As long as you are clear within yourself, and your son is happy to stay with you, just enjoy the moment and the pleasure of his company for however long it lasts. He's happy; you're happy and the rest well whatever 
. I think it sounds like a positive move for you both as long as you can stay out of the fray.
. I think it sounds like a positive move for you both as long as you can stay out of the fray.I read a statement awhile ago in an article or post that essentially said " what other people say or think about you is none of your business". As long as you are clear within yourself, and your son is happy to stay with you, just enjoy the moment and the pleasure of his company for however long it lasts. He's happy; you're happy and the rest well whatever
It's a little tougher when it's family - especially a child. But I do realize that my daughter has no idea what she is saying or doing.
making_art
Member
Darkside, it sounds like this is going to be a good thing for both you and your son. Enjoy! Another way to not become so attached to what other family members of your son are doing or saying is to think of it as their way of coping with the adjustment of change. Change is more difficult for some people than others.They will adjust over time.
I suppose it wouldn't be conceivable at some point to welcome the daughter to your house when she is considered an adult? Or are she and her mother really deeply entwined? Sounds like she is "the Golden Child" - the one who gets everything (praise, money, things, etc) while everyone else gets nothing (such as your son, from whom mom took away his money earmarked for his education).
Do you have some kind of family therapist you can go to for advice? (forgive me if I missed that you stated this in another post)
I have found that sometimes it is a lot tougher for someone to recover from being "the Golden Child" than it is from being "the Scapegoat." At least the neglected one has to learn to do things on his own, figure things out on his own, and gain survival skills, etc. Usually the Scapegoat can see, before everyone else, that what is going on is wrong. Which is why he is the one abused or ridiculed or stolen from. Any attempt at showing the truth of the situation is met with some kind of punishment, whether it's directly on him, or he is ignored and his sister is lavished upon. It sounds like your son might have become the neglected one, at least between he and his sister and his mom.
Whereas the overly indulged one is more likely to fall to pieces out in the real world, because they have this false idea that everything will work for them all the time, and that they are wonderful so no one will hate them no matter how they behave, etc... The Real World is a real stunner for them. Just imagine when a crisis or just a regular bad day comes up - the GC has no tools to understand how to cope. Back when she lived with mom, mom did her thinking for her, controlled everything. The daughter is so used to living in this controlled lab setting, anything that constitutes independence or change will blow her mind. It's also tougher to come to the realization that this "love" she gets from her mother is twisted: not love, but a form of control. A way of crippling the daughter and making her dependent on mom, and also see any kind of change as a threat (such as her brother moving in with dad).
I understand that if she pulls away from her mom, it's going to be a tough battle for the both of them, as her mom will see the daughter's attempt at independence and breaking away to be her own person as a threat/abandonment. And then mom will likely make things bad for you and your son. Your daughter, like her mom, will likely be on guard, thinking you will try to "trick" her into leaving her mom. If she is asked to stay with you, she will immediately say something like "I can't do this to mom." But at least, I was thinking, you can say then that you offered for her to come live with her brother and you. If she refuses, then she can't say you are "stealing" him away. I mean you aren't really stealing him anyway, he's an adult, but you get what I mean. The offer is there, and she has a choice, and it will be clear when she makes her choice.
I really wish you well, and hope you and your son enjoy each other's company. And I hope I am wrong about all of this going on between the daughter and her mom! Perhaps a good family therapist will confirm or advise differently.
Do you have some kind of family therapist you can go to for advice? (forgive me if I missed that you stated this in another post)
I have found that sometimes it is a lot tougher for someone to recover from being "the Golden Child" than it is from being "the Scapegoat." At least the neglected one has to learn to do things on his own, figure things out on his own, and gain survival skills, etc. Usually the Scapegoat can see, before everyone else, that what is going on is wrong. Which is why he is the one abused or ridiculed or stolen from. Any attempt at showing the truth of the situation is met with some kind of punishment, whether it's directly on him, or he is ignored and his sister is lavished upon. It sounds like your son might have become the neglected one, at least between he and his sister and his mom.
Whereas the overly indulged one is more likely to fall to pieces out in the real world, because they have this false idea that everything will work for them all the time, and that they are wonderful so no one will hate them no matter how they behave, etc... The Real World is a real stunner for them. Just imagine when a crisis or just a regular bad day comes up - the GC has no tools to understand how to cope. Back when she lived with mom, mom did her thinking for her, controlled everything. The daughter is so used to living in this controlled lab setting, anything that constitutes independence or change will blow her mind. It's also tougher to come to the realization that this "love" she gets from her mother is twisted: not love, but a form of control. A way of crippling the daughter and making her dependent on mom, and also see any kind of change as a threat (such as her brother moving in with dad).
I understand that if she pulls away from her mom, it's going to be a tough battle for the both of them, as her mom will see the daughter's attempt at independence and breaking away to be her own person as a threat/abandonment. And then mom will likely make things bad for you and your son. Your daughter, like her mom, will likely be on guard, thinking you will try to "trick" her into leaving her mom. If she is asked to stay with you, she will immediately say something like "I can't do this to mom." But at least, I was thinking, you can say then that you offered for her to come live with her brother and you. If she refuses, then she can't say you are "stealing" him away. I mean you aren't really stealing him anyway, he's an adult, but you get what I mean. The offer is there, and she has a choice, and it will be clear when she makes her choice.
I really wish you well, and hope you and your son enjoy each other's company. And I hope I am wrong about all of this going on between the daughter and her mom! Perhaps a good family therapist will confirm or advise differently.
This is related to my codependency, but I don't want my daughter to hate me. My ex-wife knows I don't care what she thinks of me so she is using my daughter to fight her battle. That really makes me angry and it should. But I can't control what she says or thinks ... unfortunately, my ex-wife can.
---------- Post Merged at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:04 PM ----------
Everything you have said is exactly right. She is the golden child and my middle son is the "neglected one." The oldest is the scapegoat. He was blamed for everything.
Last fall my daughter had a meltdown over a boy. The boy lives here and so she came for a weekend to stay with me and to see him. At some point he broke up with her and she went to pieces. She did not want to go home because her mother wanted to "fix" everything rather than listen to her grief. I let her cry on my shoulder and stay over another day. In the end, I encouraged my daughter to go home and to finish the semester at school and then we could talk about her moving here. I renewed that offer over Christmas but she decided not to move.
My ex-wife is manipulating my daughter, but as the GC my daughter is manipulating her mother too. She has said things like, "my daddy would buy this for me ... maybe I should move in with him." I give her limits (yes I will fix her car or her laptop, but not buy her a $500 dress) but my ex-wife is afraid to tell her "no" out of fear she will leave.
She will have a difficult time when she goes off to college next year, but it might be good for her to get away on her own. Whatever happens I will try to be there for her.
I have a therapist but it had not occurred to me to see a family therapist. For some reason I had always thought of them as treating a family unit together rather than counseling one family member without the others present.
---------- Post Merged at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:04 PM ----------
Everything you have said is exactly right. She is the golden child and my middle son is the "neglected one." The oldest is the scapegoat. He was blamed for everything.
Last fall my daughter had a meltdown over a boy. The boy lives here and so she came for a weekend to stay with me and to see him. At some point he broke up with her and she went to pieces. She did not want to go home because her mother wanted to "fix" everything rather than listen to her grief. I let her cry on my shoulder and stay over another day. In the end, I encouraged my daughter to go home and to finish the semester at school and then we could talk about her moving here. I renewed that offer over Christmas but she decided not to move.
My ex-wife is manipulating my daughter, but as the GC my daughter is manipulating her mother too. She has said things like, "my daddy would buy this for me ... maybe I should move in with him." I give her limits (yes I will fix her car or her laptop, but not buy her a $500 dress) but my ex-wife is afraid to tell her "no" out of fear she will leave.
She will have a difficult time when she goes off to college next year, but it might be good for her to get away on her own. Whatever happens I will try to be there for her.
I have a therapist but it had not occurred to me to see a family therapist. For some reason I had always thought of them as treating a family unit together rather than counseling one family member without the others present.
Well, I am not sure how a family therapist works, but maybe if you and your son attend, a family therapist might see the whole family all at once, or perhaps just whoever is willing to come, or possibly one family member at a time. I am sure a family therapist would like to see everyone together and independently so they can get the best idea of what is going on.
At the very least, if only you and your son attend sessions, then you two could both get advice on what to do. Also the family therapist might also give insights into you and your son's dynamic as well. Even if only the two of you get support, that would be better than if no one got support.
It is my understanding, based on being in a support group, that a truly ill individual may not go at all to therapy because they are so blind to their issues that they refuse to believe they have anything wrong with themselves.
Sometimes the mother goes to a therapist on her own to vent about how everyone is so horrible to her, against her, etc or to a psychiatrist to get drugs to numb feelings (or self-medicate), but sometimes sessions alone with a therapist usually only result in her getting her own feelings/entitlements strengthened and reinforces the fact that she is the victim and everyone else is the problem. Unless her therapist sees what is really going on, tries to help her confront some truths, and she becomes threatened by this exposure to what she really is, and then she quits therapy altogether, or may go through several therapists trying to get validation that she is RIGHT and everyone ELSE is wrong! lol
Others have mentioned to me how their mothers would go to a therapist first, and give their side of the story, and if the therapist somehow held sympathy with her and let emotion cloud their judgement, then when the rest of the family joined the therapy session, the therapist would already have picked her side, even though he/she was supposed to be impartial.
They're very good actors/actresses and very good at filtering out everything that makes them look bad. They sometimes do it consciously and sometimes unconsciously.
If there is any way to at least have the daughter come, perhaps while she is away at college (don't know if her college is near you?) and if she needs support... Heck if she is staying at or attending the college, they likely have their own counselors... I've had to ask for help when I was at university. I had two sessions, I believe. Although the lady I was talking to wasn't much older than me, I think they have some training in Social Work, etc, or some kind of experience, so at least they are good listeners. Even if your daughter sees a therapist independently, that's a good thing. Her mother may tell her she doesn't need therapy, or tell her daughter she's weak to give in to therapy, or whatever, but hopefully if you and your son back up your daughter, she will stick to it.
Of course, I'm getting ahead of myself here. Hopefully your daughter will the one to realize she needs help, and not try to lean on her mom, but will try to strike out and find solutions on her own.
Yes when two people are as emotionally enmeshed, or to the point of having some type of emotional incest (not sure if this is the case), then it can be really really tough to untangle them from each other. Perhaps you can tell your daughter, matter of fact, that she needs to try to avoid emotionally manipulate her mom, because that is what her mom does to her all the time. She can either get things independently (ie earning her own money) and fairly (without trying to indicate a threat about leaving her), as she wouldn't want her mom or anyone else doing that to her. Does she like it when her mom says things like: "Do what I say or I'm sending you away to live with your dad, and I'll never say another thing to you again." I don't know if this would be your thing, or the therapist's thing to say.
And I may be incorrect, but would anything pointing out that she is doing exactly what her mom is doing to manipulate people be a good preventative measure? I reel a bit if someone says I did or said something my mother might have done. My immediate reaction is "EEK!" lol Your daughter's mind isn't finished developing, so hopefully there is a chance to reinforce/instill some of this "Truthiness" before she's laid down a complete and stubborn belief system that will have to have a load of dynamite under it before it even budges an 8th of an inch. Maybe you could ask your therapist about that. The outcome may be way more unpredictable than that.
At the very least, if only you and your son attend sessions, then you two could both get advice on what to do. Also the family therapist might also give insights into you and your son's dynamic as well. Even if only the two of you get support, that would be better than if no one got support.
It is my understanding, based on being in a support group, that a truly ill individual may not go at all to therapy because they are so blind to their issues that they refuse to believe they have anything wrong with themselves.
Sometimes the mother goes to a therapist on her own to vent about how everyone is so horrible to her, against her, etc or to a psychiatrist to get drugs to numb feelings (or self-medicate), but sometimes sessions alone with a therapist usually only result in her getting her own feelings/entitlements strengthened and reinforces the fact that she is the victim and everyone else is the problem. Unless her therapist sees what is really going on, tries to help her confront some truths, and she becomes threatened by this exposure to what she really is, and then she quits therapy altogether, or may go through several therapists trying to get validation that she is RIGHT and everyone ELSE is wrong! lol
Others have mentioned to me how their mothers would go to a therapist first, and give their side of the story, and if the therapist somehow held sympathy with her and let emotion cloud their judgement, then when the rest of the family joined the therapy session, the therapist would already have picked her side, even though he/she was supposed to be impartial.
They're very good actors/actresses and very good at filtering out everything that makes them look bad. They sometimes do it consciously and sometimes unconsciously.
If there is any way to at least have the daughter come, perhaps while she is away at college (don't know if her college is near you?) and if she needs support... Heck if she is staying at or attending the college, they likely have their own counselors... I've had to ask for help when I was at university. I had two sessions, I believe. Although the lady I was talking to wasn't much older than me, I think they have some training in Social Work, etc, or some kind of experience, so at least they are good listeners. Even if your daughter sees a therapist independently, that's a good thing. Her mother may tell her she doesn't need therapy, or tell her daughter she's weak to give in to therapy, or whatever, but hopefully if you and your son back up your daughter, she will stick to it.
Of course, I'm getting ahead of myself here. Hopefully your daughter will the one to realize she needs help, and not try to lean on her mom, but will try to strike out and find solutions on her own.
Yes when two people are as emotionally enmeshed, or to the point of having some type of emotional incest (not sure if this is the case), then it can be really really tough to untangle them from each other. Perhaps you can tell your daughter, matter of fact, that she needs to try to avoid emotionally manipulate her mom, because that is what her mom does to her all the time. She can either get things independently (ie earning her own money) and fairly (without trying to indicate a threat about leaving her), as she wouldn't want her mom or anyone else doing that to her. Does she like it when her mom says things like: "Do what I say or I'm sending you away to live with your dad, and I'll never say another thing to you again." I don't know if this would be your thing, or the therapist's thing to say.
And I may be incorrect, but would anything pointing out that she is doing exactly what her mom is doing to manipulate people be a good preventative measure? I reel a bit if someone says I did or said something my mother might have done. My immediate reaction is "EEK!" lol Your daughter's mind isn't finished developing, so hopefully there is a chance to reinforce/instill some of this "Truthiness" before she's laid down a complete and stubborn belief system that will have to have a load of dynamite under it before it even budges an 8th of an inch. Maybe you could ask your therapist about that. The outcome may be way more unpredictable than that.
All good ideas if I can pull it off.
My son had a conversation with his mother tonight and she wanted to come pick him up tomorrow ... she said just for the day to see his grandmother. (her mother) When she found out my other son is here and that I was on vacation tomorrow and Tuesday and would be home she changed her mind and told him she would come a week from tomorrow.
Even though she said just for the day I don't think that is what will happen. She will make him get in the car with her and drive him back to her house against his will. He is not very assertive so he won't fight her. I have known this woman for 30 years ... I know that is what she is planning.
I know all this sounds extremely dramatic ... I don't live this way, but she creates drama everywhere she goes.
My son had a conversation with his mother tonight and she wanted to come pick him up tomorrow ... she said just for the day to see his grandmother. (her mother) When she found out my other son is here and that I was on vacation tomorrow and Tuesday and would be home she changed her mind and told him she would come a week from tomorrow.
Even though she said just for the day I don't think that is what will happen. She will make him get in the car with her and drive him back to her house against his will. He is not very assertive so he won't fight her. I have known this woman for 30 years ... I know that is what she is planning.
I know all this sounds extremely dramatic ... I don't live this way, but she creates drama everywhere she goes.
Hopefully he'll call you back up, if she tries that, and will tell you he needs to get picked up and taken back to your place.
Maybe you and your son could discuss things. You could remind him of what he said earlier, about him being an adult and that he should be able to choose where he lives. He should repeat that to his mother, for sure, if she tries to delay getting him back to you. Also there is the possibility that the daughter will try also to guilt him back to stay. Perhaps you can encourage your son to try to persuade his sister to come with him when she's considered an adult.
It's easier to stick to your guns when you have your own argument, your own ideas, etc... With these types of people, sometimes they scheme and plan for weeks. Might be advantageous to just have a little practice in front of a mirror, yourselves!
You shouldn't have to anticipate for possibilities or have to do this kind of planning, but sometimes it's better than just going into the dysfunction without a plan.
You and your son may have to keep on your poker faces and have a strategy, just to survive this "day away." Make sure your son knows it's just an Away Mission and that he's not wearing a red shirt (Star Trek reference). Bring a phaser and set it to stun (as in the tools and "scripting" and whatever other strategies you have)...
Wishing you and your son well!
Maybe you and your son could discuss things. You could remind him of what he said earlier, about him being an adult and that he should be able to choose where he lives. He should repeat that to his mother, for sure, if she tries to delay getting him back to you. Also there is the possibility that the daughter will try also to guilt him back to stay. Perhaps you can encourage your son to try to persuade his sister to come with him when she's considered an adult.
It's easier to stick to your guns when you have your own argument, your own ideas, etc... With these types of people, sometimes they scheme and plan for weeks. Might be advantageous to just have a little practice in front of a mirror, yourselves!
You shouldn't have to anticipate for possibilities or have to do this kind of planning, but sometimes it's better than just going into the dysfunction without a plan.
You and your son may have to keep on your poker faces and have a strategy, just to survive this "day away." Make sure your son knows it's just an Away Mission and that he's not wearing a red shirt (Star Trek reference). Bring a phaser and set it to stun (as in the tools and "scripting" and whatever other strategies you have)...
Wishing you and your son well!
Hopefully he'll call you back up, if she tries that, and will tell you he needs to get picked up and taken back to your place.
Maybe you and your son could discuss things. You could remind him of what he said earlier, about him being an adult and that he should be able to choose where he lives. He should repeat that to his mother, for sure, if she tries to delay getting him back to you. Also there is the possibility that the daughter will try also to guilt him back to stay. Perhaps you can encourage your son to try to persuade his sister to come with him when she's considered an adult.
It's easier to stick to your guns when you have your own argument, your own ideas, etc... With these types of people, sometimes they scheme and plan for weeks. Might be advantageous to just have a little practice in front of a mirror, yourselves!
You shouldn't have to anticipate for possibilities or have to do this kind of planning, but sometimes it's better than just going into the dysfunction without a plan.
You and your son may have to keep on your poker faces and have a strategy, just to survive this "day away." Make sure your son knows it's just an Away Mission and that he's not wearing a red shirt (Star Trek reference). Bring a phaser and set it to stun (as in the tools and "scripting" and whatever other strategies you have)...
Wishing you and your son well!
My oldest son had a talk with him yesterday before he left and warned him that his mom will try and make him feel bad if he tells her he wants to stay here. I will have a talk with him as well. I have told him several times over the past few weeks that at age 20 this is his life to live and his to make his own choices. No one can decide for him and even though his mom may be upset she will get over it.
But she will pull out the big guns. Guilt, bullying, blame, how she is being victimized by me and how hurt she is over his decision to stay here.
Yep, sounds par for the course.
Would it help to tell him it's like she's from another planet, and she rules it? And he doesn't have to go back and live on that planet. lol
Seriously, sometimes it seems like they are aliens in human clothing. They totally don't get how society or family works, and they have their own weird and twisted way of thinking regarding those things. They almost blend in, but not quite, if one knows what to look for.
Would it help to tell him that everything she does in the end is not for him, but for herself? Even when they "act" normal for a good length of time, treat you like gold, trick you into thinking you'll be safe, it's just to pull you back into their dysfunction again. Everything seems to have a means to an end. You are an object or a tool to be used.
Should be interesting to see if your son does stay with you, will the mom decide to change the daughter into the new Scapegoat? People like that have to get their supply somewhere, and that's provided by making someone a victim to prey on. They suck the life out of people to make themselves feel better. lol Maybe that alone would be enough to push your daughter away from her and back to you. Maybe. Or mom might continue to be doted on and made to be the "good daughter" who stayed. It's hard to say which way this might swing.
If you feel comfortable about it, maybe one day you can tell me what your therapist thinks about all of this. My therapist had definite ideas about my situation.
Would it help to tell him it's like she's from another planet, and she rules it? And he doesn't have to go back and live on that planet. lol
Seriously, sometimes it seems like they are aliens in human clothing. They totally don't get how society or family works, and they have their own weird and twisted way of thinking regarding those things. They almost blend in, but not quite, if one knows what to look for.
Would it help to tell him that everything she does in the end is not for him, but for herself? Even when they "act" normal for a good length of time, treat you like gold, trick you into thinking you'll be safe, it's just to pull you back into their dysfunction again. Everything seems to have a means to an end. You are an object or a tool to be used.
Should be interesting to see if your son does stay with you, will the mom decide to change the daughter into the new Scapegoat? People like that have to get their supply somewhere, and that's provided by making someone a victim to prey on. They suck the life out of people to make themselves feel better. lol Maybe that alone would be enough to push your daughter away from her and back to you. Maybe. Or mom might continue to be doted on and made to be the "good daughter" who stayed. It's hard to say which way this might swing.
If you feel comfortable about it, maybe one day you can tell me what your therapist thinks about all of this. My therapist had definite ideas about my situation.
Yep, sounds par for the course.
Would it help to tell him it's like she's from another planet, and she rules it? And he doesn't have to go back and live on that planet. lol
Seriously, sometimes it seems like they are aliens in human clothing. They totally don't get how society or family works, and they have their own weird and twisted way of thinking regarding those things. They almost blend in, but not quite, if one knows what to look for.
Would it help to tell him that everything she does in the end is not for him, but for herself? Even when they "act" normal for a good length of time, treat you like gold, trick you into thinking you'll be safe, it's just to pull you back into their dysfunction again. Everything seems to have a means to an end. You are an object or a tool to be used.
Should be interesting to see if your son does stay with you, will the mom decide to change the daughter into the new Scapegoat? People like that have to get their supply somewhere, and that's provided by making someone a victim to prey on. They suck the life out of people to make themselves feel better. lol Maybe that alone would be enough to push your daughter away from her and back to you. Maybe. Or mom might continue to be doted on and made to be the "good daughter" who stayed. It's hard to say which way this might swing.
If you feel comfortable about it, maybe one day you can tell me what your therapist thinks about all of this. My therapist had definite ideas about my situation.
I'm not sure if that will help. He loves his mom and I don't want to criticize her when talking to him. I'm trying hard to stay neutral and keep my feelings and opinions about her to myself, but offer him an alternative place to live.
We went and talked to the admissions counselor at the local tech school about transferring. He liked what he saw of the school. Next step is to begin the application and transfer process. He has to get some information from his mom to do that. (about his scholarship)
She will be here next Monday so this will be settled one way or the other by then.
---------- Post Merged at 07:49 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:45 AM ----------
My daughter has cast her lot with her mom. When my son told his mom he was thinking about staying here and going to school I received a flurry of text messages from my daughter telling me I was evil.
Staying neutral is the absolute best practice with regards to your sons mother. For what it's worth I think it's perfect that you are providing your son with alternatives and allowing him to make the choices. Unfortunately for your daughter, it will be her lesson to learn about her mother.
You know what, you're both right. My apologies for my not-so-well thought out advice. It's between parents and kids here, and it would not be good for any parent to criticize the other parent to a child. THAT right there IS dysfunction. So sorry I even said that.
I suppose it would be a more acceptable conversation if it was between two adults (such as grown siblings), as my siblings and I have had many such discussions... but definitely I stand corrected when it comes to parents and children. My bad!
I suppose it would be a more acceptable conversation if it was between two adults (such as grown siblings), as my siblings and I have had many such discussions... but definitely I stand corrected when it comes to parents and children.
My bad!You know what, you're both right. My apologies for my not-so-well thought out advice. It's between parents and kids here, and it would not be good for any parent to criticize the other parent to a child. THAT right there IS dysfunction. So sorry I even said that.
I suppose it would be a more acceptable conversation if it was between two adults (such as grown siblings), as my siblings and I have had many such discussions... but definitely I stand corrected when it comes to parents and children.
I have noticed that my children occasionally talk about their mother in my presence, but when they do I don't say anything unless it is completely neutral. Years ago I said something negative about her to my oldest son, and they all took up for her. One of the rules of divorce is to let your children vent but don't say anything critical about the other parent to them. Even if they are upset.
Yes, I feel bad that I offered that advice. You are 100% correct.
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