Questions about suicide

[Shaymus]

I read several mental health forums and it seems most times when people get suicidal their feelings are numbed and what not. For me its the exact opposite! I freak out over every little thing and if it happens to be a big thing thats when suicide seems like the right choice. My emotions seem so extreme its overwhelming,my brain never turns off it just keeps going. I need a tv on at night or ill just sit their with my thoughts all night long which is terrible. Why am i so weird? Ive been diagnosed with dysthymia and anxiety/social anxiety. I look up dysthymia online and one called it mild depression! Why am i having such horrible problems then? Am i truly so weak that i cant even stand the mild version of depression?

Im currently taking Lexapro(30mgs) and ativan as needed(but i took them all already). I see a therapist once or twice a month but we never really talk about WHY i feel like crap. Instead he trys to get me to see im a good guy and shouldnt be so hard on myself. This isnt working one bit. You cant convince me im not a horrible person,ive done too many evil selfish things.

My main question tho is How come most suicidal people i see online are all numb and whatnot(something id kill for) and im an emotional mess feeling way too much when i am feeling like this? I even tried messing with my drugs to turn my brain off,nothing works and it just keeps getting worse.

I recently got insurance(state poor people) thats pretty good,so if you have some thoughts of what kind of therapist i might need to get i can do that. Im willing to try almost anything right now as im on the edge.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I read several mental health forums and it seems most times when people get suicidal their feelings are numbed and what not. For me its the exact opposite! I freak out over every little thing and if it happens to be a big thing thats when suicide seems like the right choice.

Whether someone contemplating suicide feels calm, numb, frightened, worried, anxious, depressed, etc., depends on the individual and how certain the person is in his or her own mind about the "plan" to commit suicide.

My emotions seem so extreme its overwhelming, my brain never turns off it just keeps going. I need a tv on at night or ill just sit their with my thoughts all night long which is terrible. Why am i so weird? I've been diagnosed with dysthymia and anxiety/social anxiety. I look up dysthymia online and one called it mild depression! Why am i having such horrible problems then? Am i truly so weak that i cant even stand the mild version of depression?

The term "mild depression" is (1) a relative one -- "severe depression" is used for someone whose depression is at a level where they may be unable to get out of bed or move to perform even simple tasks; and (2) a bit of a misnomer because it really refers to "chronic depression" in which the symptoms are not suffficiently severe to meet the criteria for Major Depressive Episode -- however, someone suffering from dysthymia may experience one or more Major Depressive Episodes and then return to the dysthymic state. And by the way, this has nothing to do with "weakness" versus "strength"...

I'm currently taking Lexapro (30 mgs) and ativan as needed (but i took them all already). I see a therapist once or twice a month but we never really talk about WHY i feel like crap. Instead he trys to get me to see im a good guy and shouldnt be so hard on myself. This isnt working one bit. You cant convince me I'm not a horrible person, I've done too many evil selfish things.

My main question tho is How come most suicidal people i see online are all numb and what not (something id kill for) and im an emotional mess feeling way too much when i am feeling like this? I even tried messing with my drugs to turn my brain off, nothing works and it just keeps getting worse.

You say your diagnosis is dysthymia and social anxiety disorder. Who made that diagnois and when? Who is monitoring your medications? How long have you been seeing your current therapist "once or twice a month", and is this a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, or what?

I recently got insurance(state poor people) thats pretty good,so if you have some thoughts of what kind of therapist i might need to get i can do that. Im willing to try almost anything right now as im on the edge.

First, if you are not finding your current therapist helpful, by all means look for another one. Some may be more knowledgeable about your specific issues than others, but there's also the "comfort factor": For maximum benefit, your therapist should be someone you are comfortable with, trust, and have confidence in -- if you don't feel that your current therapist doesn't meet all those criteria, it's probably time to find another one.

As for "what kind of therapist", that depends in part on how accurate the current diagnosis is for you -- it's possible that those diagnoses fit the major symptoms but there may be an underlying disorder at the root of both (e.g., obsessive-compulsive disorder, or a personality disorder).

 

[Shaymus]

The psychologist at Catholic Charities made the diagnoses about 2 months ago maybe. I think ive had about 4 sessions with him. Hehe no one monitors my meds,,im 29 years old i get to do that all by myself.

The problem im having is i have social anxiety im never gonna feel comfortable with a therapist until my brain accepts them as non strangers or whatever. So finding one i feel comfortable with could take years and years which is crazy.

Do you really think by one post i have even more stuff messed up with me in my head? That isnt a snotty question(it came across snotty to me so i added this) im truly curious.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I'm not trying to say that the disagnosis is incorrect, merely that some of your comments in the first post made me wonder about other possibilities -- not necessarily "even more stuff messed up with [your] head" but rather something that might be manifested in symptoms of both anxiety and depression. The part about intrusive thoughts, for example, and "You cant convince me I'm not a horrible person, I've done too many evil selfish things" made me curious about the possibility of OCD.

 

[Shaymus]

OCD causes people to do evil selfish things? Like for instance stealing your sisters gold coins for money or stealing stuff out of peoples cars? I didnt do these things for any reason other than being selfish and wanting money. Thankfully im older now and can refrain from most of these things but still that doesnt sound like anything more than evil selfishness,not ocd(not that i know much about it). I guess i can read up on it tho,thanks.

 

[sammy]

Shaymus- I don't know if you're a Catholic (you mentioned that your therapist is from Catholic charities).
Please forgive me if that's not relevant at all.
But I'm a Christian myself, and when you talk about 'evil selfishness, ' it makes me wonder...
I do believe that every human being is selfish... that is the way we are basically tuned.
We all feel a strong sense of 'self'-preservation, an instinct to put ourselves first...
But 'evil'-selfishness??? The two don't always go hand in hand.
Robbing others, as a young person, to get money, may be quite common.
As you said, you do not do it now... you are maturing.

Yes, you may be selfish, as I am/can be, and most of us are... but that is not necessarily evil.

Just incase you are a Catholic, - there is full forgiveness available you know

edited for spelling mistake...

 

[David Baxter PhD]

OCD causes people to do evil selfish things? Like for instance stealing your sisters gold coins for money or stealing stuff out of peoples cars? I didnt do these things for any reason other than being selfish and wanting money. Thankfully im older now and can refrain from most of these things but still that doesnt sound like anything more than evil selfishness,not ocd(not that i know much about it). I guess i can read up on it tho,thanks.

"evil selfishness' is s trong phrase -- no, I don't mean that OCD causes people to do evil things, but rather ome form of OCD may cause you to brood / ruminate / obsess about such things.

Also, see Sammy's post above: Most (well over half) children and teens engage in at least one or two "antisocial" acts such as what you describe -- it doesn't make you "evil".

 

[sammy]

My son, stole money from my brother's house when staying there with his sister overnight, (so me and my husband could go to a mini-conference)...

we talked about it and realised it was very probably because we hadn't started to give him any 'pocket-money'...
we did that and there were no more problems...
sometimes, stealing in younger people can be from perceived need...

Dear Shaymus...I hope you can hear that no-one is judging you...
did you feel that you needed something when you stole?

 

[Shaymus]

Im not catholic but i was raised catholic and had to get confirmed for my parents. I just pulled up two instances of evil selfishness,,i have many more examples to offer. I was arrested for felony theft at one point for stealing golf clubs out of some strangers car. I stole gas several times. I took my dads money(silver certificates?) and bought firecrackers with them when very young. I lit a field on fire. I used my sisters cell phone and charged up $1,000 of bills on it. I stole from some friends parents. I would have to write a book of what i stole from friends,,from something as silly as one of those small toy cars as a kid to cds and drugs and whatever else i thought i could get away with. I lived in my car for a while and lived on writing bad checks,id have to guess at least over 50 of them. Obviously wanting drugs(marijuana tho,so its not like i was some addict for an excuse,i have none) had something to do with some of these things but others i just did cause i could even tho i would feel terrible afterwards. I guess i very well could have ocd cause these thoughts of that time parade thru my head daily and the regret and stupidity of it all crushes me. The most evil and selfish thing ive ever done tho is what ive been doing the last year or so. Which is exactly nothing. Afraid to be judged by going outside i hide in my house and earn zero money and put a serious drain on my families(girlfriend +2 daughters) financial standing. We are poor as hell and its my fault. Everyone else struggles thru and i sit here boo hooing while doing nothing day after day. Thats the part that really hurts and the part that makes me think they would be better off without me. Plus how many people on this earth struggle thru the first 30 years of their life and then magically become productive good human beings?

PS Thanks sammy,i dont feel judged at all,thats part of the beauty of online i think. If i do feel bad i can hit a button and it goes away. Too bad their isnt a button like that in life.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Plus how many people on this earth struggle thru the first 30 years of their life and then magically become productive good human beings?

You might be surprised to find out how many... many of them addicts or drug abusers, probably... some abused in various ways by life and families who end up in institutions of one kind or another... some who, perhaps like you, are just too depressed and angry to do anything except lash out and hate... what all of these people have in common is that one day something happens, or sometimes someone happens, and they say, simply, "I've had enough... no more... the next 30 years are not going to be like this". It isn't suddenly all milk-and-honey-in-the-promised-land after that, of course... it's more like one small step at a time, one hour at a time, then one day, one month, one year.. but that moment of epiphany or whatever it is changes that person's life.

I have seen many examples of this... some quite close to home.

 

[Shaymus]

You are right,in my head i am angry and do lash out and hate. But i do it inside my head and save the most vicious barbs for myself so i dont feel very guilty.

Whats ironic about it all is i did have that i dont wanna live like this anymore epiphanies. I called(which is hard for me) many different psychologists and psychiatrists looking for help(sliding scale fees,and willing to see someone with no money is hard to find). I set up appointments. I took my drugs. I tried to do everything i was told. It started about 3 months ago as at first i only saw a drug doctor and got my lexapro. So you would think my life has gotten better. You couldnt be further from the truth. My life is spiraling into darkness so quick it even shocks me and im used to being me. Believe me im sooo ready not to be a miserable failure and im trying but it seems like the more i struggle against this the more i sink in the quicksand of doom. Its frustrating and seems very pointless most days.

It is very nice to know that its not strange to feel too much instead of being numb. It worried me for some reason.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Several things occur to me:

First, when I asked, "Who is monitoring your medications?", I don't mean who is checking to see if you are taking them -- I mean who is checking to see if they are working. You may need a different medication or a diffrent dose -- if the former, there are a lot to choose from so if after three months you are still feeling the way you describe I would wonder about whether another SSRI might be more helpful.

Second, as we have already discussed, it is possible that a different therapist might be helfpul, especially if you don't have faith in your current one.

Third, it may be worth putting some effort in therapy into examining your anger and your guilt rather than focusiing solely on depressive thoughts: Classically, depression was viewed as "anger turned inward" and I do think there is often some truth to that.

 

[Shaymus]

Ahhh well at first it was a nurse or something. She then started pushing me into day treatment and pushing for other stuff and refused to listen to me say no. I got angry and decided to see the psychiatrist at Catholic Charities and have switched to them for the drugs and the therapy. I still have to cancel the appointment i have with the nurse but im nervous about doing so and part of me wishes i had the guts to go in and tell her exactly why im leaving her. The day treatment might have been a good idea but im terribly social phobic and i asked around and people said thats a LOT of group therapy and stupid stuff like crafts. I dont want adult day care,thanks.

Ill probably try to find another therapist. One question i have is it possible to continue with the one i have now and maybe see a different kind of therapist too? Or do i have to choose? I feel comfy with this one most days but i think i need something more often and a kind where i get to talk more. Id feel bad for dropping him tho as he is a nice guy and i like their drug doctor better even if she was pushy too.

Thirdly that is probably right on target. Guilt and anger consume me. Its like the stereotype of men to think of sex every 5 seconds. I think of regret and stupid actions every five seconds.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I think most therapists would have a difficult time with you seeing two therapists at once -- the likelihood of conflicting advice is high unless there is a high degree of coordination between the two and that's pretty difficult to arrange.

 

[jacie]

Shaymus, I hate to jump in the middle here and upset you, but someone close to me just attempted suicide the other day. I see you were raised Catholic. Do you think that suicide will make the pain go away, or are you thinking about it as a way to punish yourself? Either way, it is an act of ultimate despair and rejection of God. Maybe sometimes you think of it as a way to punish God? Do you blame him for all the bad things in your life? Just curious as to the thought process. Please humour me with your thoughts on this.

 

[Shaymus]

I dont know if pain would be the right answer but i guess its close. Mostly when i get this way it is over something i cant deal with and feel helpless and frustrated and there are no easy answers. This ranges from my girlfriend getting pulled over when she didnt have a lisence and the fun issues with that to my sister having a tumor in her head to guilt for being a lazy bum and things such as this. Even such things as relieving my girlfriend of the burden that is me so she can find someone who isnt a piece of dirt. I dont think of it as punishing God but i do get angry and pissed and wonder why if we praise him for miracles we dont blame him for negatives. But not all the bad things in my life,i can take credit for most of my crap after calming down except for things like the tumor or other random horrible things that no ones free will caused. Ive been awake too long so if i havent explained very well clarify for me as my brain is slow today.

 

[Shaymus]

Life is a struggle

Im sick of life creating chaos. Im sick of struggling thru every little mishap or crushing defeat life has to offer. My main question lately is this: If my biggest problem is dealing with problems in life how can anything make it better? Problems come up in everyones life im assuming. For me i cant handle them anymore and dont want to. Im sick of leeching off of good people. What is harder on people do you think,,having someone you love disapear and not knowing,,or knowing someone you love killed themselves? I can see both as hurting but i think they would eventually be easier able to deal with option b but not really sure. Im not on the verge of attempting but my mind is curious and i have too much time to think and this is something i need to figure out.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Shaymus, with all that thinking you're doing, I would suggest you think hard and long about getting in to see your therapist or getting another one -- and about being very open and direct about all these thoughts you've been having. No therapist can help you if you don't let him or her know what's going on. I would also suggest that you see whoever you need to see about reviewing your medications.

 

[Shaymus]

Thats the strange thing. I did have therapy last monday and i did share finally some(the thoughts and the looking for ways on the internet,and a lil about abusing my meds) and felt like i made progress for the first time. I felt the glow of that for a couple days and now my brain has gone back to normal. Lol he had me sign a sheet of paper saying i wouldnt try but seriously a signature is gonna stop someone? I think im losing my mind cause i know exactly how i was feeling when i wrote that and now in the same day im feeling high as can be. It keeps switching back and forth on me so its hard to figure out where i am half the time.

Im not sure when i next see my drug doctor,,i think maybe this week sometime or the next week but ill be sure to tell her the lexapro isnt working very well. Or actually that it is only working half the time haha.

 

[Shaymus]

Oops they called to remind me i have my drug doc appointment tomorrow at 230. Thankfully they always call to remind me the day before. I wish they would make it so my therapist was the one who prescribed me the drugs as having to rehash stuff with someone i barely know when i didnt really have the guts to say it to the guy i trusted is hard. Yuck tho if 30mgs of lexapro isnt enough then in my head at least they are gonna wanna switch the med and that sounds like a pain. Maybe they will just add something else tho,thats what ill hope for.