Why do I do this to myself?

[Into The Light]

you said your ranking used to be first in class. if you don't think that makes you smart, what would? does this mean all your other classmates are not smart either (after all, they didn't score as high as you)

 

[gooblax]

I just used to be lucky, in that I could cram information and remember it for a few hours. There are people who consistently achieve results that are close to my previous marks. They have not stopped trying. Some of these people don't do much study at all, and yet are a challenge to beat. These people are smart, not me. If they did study, they'd be doing even better. Much better than I was doing before, and certainly much better than I am doing now.

And this is just within my year at one particular school. Now think about another school... in fact, any school in the whole country; in terms of everyone who is my age anywhere in the world, at this moment, or those who used to be, and those who will be... Countless numbers of people who are thousands of times "smarter" than I am. I am nothing - never have been, and never will be.

 

[Into The Light]

countless people may be smarter than you are, however, there are countless people who aren't as smart as you. you might not be an einstein but you're not stupid either. do you agree with that?

in the end, we all have different qualities and skills. i'm always in awe of other people whom i consider much smarter than myself. but when i stop to think, there are things i am capable of that they aren't! they are smarter in certain areas, but not in others.

that's the thing about people. everyone is unique, and everyone has things they are very good at and other things they can't do as well. overall, do the things they aren't capable of make them any less worthwhile as human beings? do the things they are capable of make them more worthy? how do you determine what skills or qualities make one person "better" than another?

 

[gooblax]

I realise that I am not entirely stupid, but I'm pretty darn close. The only things that I can remember being half-decent at, were cramming info. and writing in assignments. Nothing else. Now I'm too lazy to study/cram or to complete assignments well. I don't have other areas of things that I'm good at. I'm always the reverse of that statement - I may appear to be okay at something (only "okay" - I'm not "good" at anything), but there are so many other things that I have no skill at, that it doesn't matter at all.

Others are capable of doing things. I can see that other people have plenty of skills from so many different areas, and that all of them are worthwhile. Then I see myself for the scum that I am.

I'm sorry for whinging, I'm sorry for arguing, and I'm sorry for wasting your time, but thankyou ladybug.

 

[Into The Light]

you aren't wasting my time at all gooblax. if i didn't want to have this conversation with you i wouldn't.

i think you're in the grip of depression and it's incredibly difficult to come out of it. the depression is making you feel the way you do, as being worthless and no good. i've been there. there was nothing good about myself. i felt as you do right now. guilt for not doing the things i was supposed to be doing. angry at myself for being that way. angry at the world. worthless, hopeless, sad, in pain, or at other times just numb, not enjoying things, not being able to feel much of anything, not caring.

you aren't going to be able to just snap out of what you're going through. it's just not that simple. it'll take you a while to recognize that what you are thinking and feeling is a result of depression rather than a result of your character or your perceived faults.

the way to break this vicious cycle you are in is medication and therapy. therapy alone will not be as helpful. once you get started on the medication and it starts to work, and you continue with the therapy, you will gradually start to feel better and your sense of self-worth will return.

i've been where you are and i promise you you can get well and feeling normal again.

 

[forgetremember]

I hate myself. When I started feeling 'less-than-happy,' I thought everything would be okay, and it didn't matter as long as I kept going alright at school. As long as I kept working to my standards, then feelings didn't matter.

Here seems to be the crux of the problem. When our engine is flooded by emotions, it can keep us paralyzed in confusion, like being stalled on a freeway.

I hope Gooblax you realize you're not stranded. On this stretch of the freeway (right here) there are good samaritans willing and able to help. Some are backyard mechanics like myself and others are A1 licensed mechanics who want to help you troubleshoot free of charge.

Can i ask you to describe what happened when your machine "started feeling 'less-than-happy,'"?

Thanks.

Jos?e

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I hate myself. When I started feeling 'less-than-happy,' I thought everything would be okay, and it didn't matter as long as I kept going alright at school. As long as I kept working to my standards, then feelings didn't matter. They could be dealt with during the holidays, or on days that I don't have work to do. I never used to have to deal with emotions - never even had to think about them. But now I can't even do my homework, because I'm so lazy that I don't try to do it. I'm not bored with the work - I actually find some of it quite interesting. Yet I still won't do it. However, in exams, I can make myself work, even if I get worse results because I haven't done enough study. So I'm obviously not trying at all. This laziness is something that I need to fix... am I too lazy to fix it? Probably.

Look at that first statement in the quote from your post. Then consider it in the context of the sentence that follows. These are the key points.

You're not lazy. You're trying to find a way to love yourself and to feel that others love and admire and accept you. You've tried to do this through external achievements, looking for acceptance and reassurance from others. It hasn't worked, or at best it's worked only partially. You still are left feeling that you are not loved or accepted for who you are but only for what you do. You still don't love yourself. The strategy has failed you. And therefore it's getting harder and harder for you to work up any enthusiasm for continuing to put effort into a strategy that isn't making you feel any better.

This should be your number one priority in therapy: Why is it you don't love and accept yourself? Why is it that you need external validation so badly?

Here's two exploratory self-awareness exercises you can do - no books to buy and no-one else to involve, just you:

Developing Insight into Self-Concept

Insight into Feelings

And I don't want to hear that you're too lazy to do these... by now, that's become a self-fulfilling prophecy and a self-definition for you. This isn't about laziness. It's about an underlying fear that no matter what you do no one will ever love or accept you and you will never love yourself. It's about how you have defined yourself and I think you're near or at the point where you are clinging to the notion of "I am lazy" like a lifeline. I also suspect there's more than a hint of fear of failure in there too - if I just stop trying, I can't fail any more.

 

[gooblax]

Thanks very much ladybug, Josée and Dr Baxter.

I'll respond properly when I've finished the two assignments due tomorrow (one of which I have not started). I figure I should get that done as a matter of urgency, and am not intending to be impolite by delaying my reply.
Thankyou.

 

[ladylore]

I agree with Ladybug,

All the counselling in the world wouldn't cut the depression I was feeling out. The antidepressents have helped tremendously and as given me a fighting chance of that darkness.

Just keep going and keep talking.

Ladylore:hug:

 

[gooblax]

I can't shake the impression that speaking about "things" with people is a really bad idea for me, and for others. Nor do I feel I deserve to speak to people, or to get help. Selfishly enough, that's the part that my actions are contradicting at the moment.

My mum doesn't want me to take medication. I don't really want to either... I don't really know. It would kind of make things 'official'... whether that's good or bad...

Can i ask you to describe what happened when your machine "started feeling 'less-than-happy,'"?

I dunno, nothing.

I started doing the exercises, but I don't know how to do them. I'm guessing that I'm in the wrong sort of mood to do them, because I'm just looking at the words and thinking of single-word answers. I can't seem to pull off the specific points at the moment.

Many thanks to all of you.

 

[Into The Light]

My mum doesn't want me to take medication. I don't really want to either... I don't really know. It would kind of make things 'official'... whether that's good or bad...

i think you really need to discuss this with your therapist. i think most people react this way when medication is suggested, and it can feel frightening. i know i was afraid of the medication and i tried to stay away from it and tried to cope on my own. it didn't work. i got sicker instead of better. i am not trying to frighten you but this could have cost me my life. don't dismiss the idea of medication. if you had a heart condition or diabetes you would have to take medication too. it's the same thing.

talk to your therapist about your doubts, about your mother's doubts. i think this is very important.

 

[gooblax]

Thanks ladybug.

Both my doctor and therapist have decided to give me a couple more weeks to see how I'm going before re-suggesting medication. One of my main concerns at the moment is that I've just been exaggerating everything, and that I'm really quite okay. It's so... subjective... and when I can't trust my own opinion, how can I give an accurate account?

But nevermind. Doesn't matter much.

 

[gooblax]

I've started reading Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy. It is better than the CBT book I'd read earlier, but I just get frustrated reading it. I just think that it will never help me because I won't make the effort to do anything. Other 'reasons' why it wouldn't help are addressed in the book, but this is a real reason. I know that change takes work, and I simply won't do the work. Infuriating? Yes, tell me about it. Take a swipe at me... hit me... go ahead. I'll try not to flinch.

I am absolute crap. Therapy isn't going to help me because I'm not willing to let it. I won't try to help myself, and am in fact trying to do the opposite. With the insults I repeat to myself, I am actually trying to make myself feel bad. I deserve to feel bad, and in my opinion am not feeling 'bad' enough. In fact, I have never felt "bad enough" about anything. But I deserve to feel like crap, especially if I'm going to be complaining about how I'm feeling when it's not even that bad (and I don’t even know what it is!). I've never felt really bad, but that's what I deserve. Instead, I just feel irritable, or my mood changes to something else, or I feel neutral or something. But I should be feeling like crap because I'm a crap person. And then most of the time I don't even know what I'm feeling... just... irritation, without thoughts. Then I become angry at myself for being irritated without reason, and start insulting myself again. Nothing happens, really. The insults usually don't change my mood, other than make me more annoyed that they aren't working. Perhaps I don't have good enough insults. Can anyone suggest any? I'm serious, because if I can't even insult myself properly... damn. On very rare occasions, it seems to have a little effect - I start feeling like I'm internally shaking (but I'm not actually moving), and get a bit dizzy, and have to put a bit more effort into breathing (and I start checking to make sure I'm not having a stroke... *weirdo*). That's only happened 3 times, all while I was trying to get to sleep. The best one for that is variations on "you're ****ing going to fail." (I insult myself in third person.) But anyway, that reaction is rare, and most of the time there isn't a real reaction. I hardly notice any sort of difference. And the worst part of it is that I can't even get angry enough to hit myself... I just sit there at an 'almost angry' agitated state.

However, all of this is quite beside the point - I'm so stupid that I want to make myself miserable! I don't particularly want to be miserable (I don’t think, although maybe I do), but I deserve to be, and therefore should be. I don't have real problems, my only problem is myself, and I'm too crap to do anything about myself. Worse still, I'm prepared to make endless complaints about this state of affairs to anyone within a virtual keyboard-length. So on top of the rest of that, I'm an annoying, whinging, forum-lurking ****. And I'm wasting my parents' money on a therapist, when I am the problem and could change things if I wanted to. But I don't want to, not really. If I did, I wouldn't be trying to make myself miserable, would I? Not that I'm all that good at making myself sad... I can't even get that right.

What I certainly do not deserve is any sort of assistance, or support, or help, or for anyone to care at all about me. I don’t even deserve to have posted this. (And what about my "I'm not posting anything for a week"??? ***ING FAILURE!) But guess what, I did anyway. And why? Because I’m selfish.

I can appreciate that no one wants to hear another word from me, ever. Tell me that, and perhaps I'll actually accept that properly, and leave everyone alone. I apologise for being such a pest, and continuing to be a nuisance. Seriously, I'll shut up if you ask me to. Or at least insult me a bit. Maybe I'll get up the motivation for suicide, with a bit of help. Do the world a favour, and remove a bit of the trash. Please.

 

[Into The Light]

wow gooblax, that's quite the tirade against yourself. you say you don't feel much and that your insults aren't working to make you feel worse. i think you ARE feeling miserable but that you're minimizing it.

this statement really stood out to me:

Therapy isn't going to help me because I'm not willing to let it.

do you know why you are not willing to let it? what would it mean if you let therapy help you?

 

[gooblax]

do you know why you are not willing to let it? what would it mean if you let therapy help you?

Probably because I know I deserve to feel worse than I do now. Therapy is supposed to be helpful or whatever, and is thus counterproductive to feeling worse, which I seem so eager to attain.

 

[Into The Light]

so you are saying you want to feel miserable. why is that? take a long and hard look for the answer, and be honest with yourself. this is also a question you don't have to answer here, but answering it for yourself may provide you with some insight.

 

[gooblax]

Well by now everyone knows how much I seem to enjoy posting, so unfortunately I'm going to post my ridiculous attempt at an answer. I encourage you to pay absolutely no attention to anything I say, but thankyou ladybug for your previous replies.

Possibilities for why I want to be miserable:
For attention - so I have something to talk about (I'm a very boring person who has very little to say aside from making a complaint about myself); because I'm lonely; because I want people to care about me; so I have something to complain about...

Because I want the punishment that I deserve - other people are miserable, so I should be as well; and I don't really seem to care how others are feeling, and won't try to help them, and sometimes can't do anything to help them, and no one would want me to help them even if I could and wanted to, because there's always heaps of other people who would do a better job; because the world is full of crap and bad things happen to everyone and I don't care, and therefore I am insensitive, selfish and should therefore be punished; other people are punished or reprimanded for their wrong behaviours (by others or by themselves) yet I experience neither to an appropriate extent; because the only time I seem to care about someone is if they mean something to me and if I stand to lose something from their suffering; because I DO care about all of that, yet don't do anything about it! I am an undeniably horrible person who deserves continual suffering, to be isolated from everyone with no chance to complain...

Other thoughts - at least when I'm sad I can't be quite so angry with myself, I can just allow myself to stay sad or try to make myself feel better...

I don't know if any of these are the correct answer. I don't have a clue. I'm pretty sure about the solution though.

Seriously, just ask me to leave and I will. Sorry everyone.

 

[Into The Light]

For attention - [...] because I'm lonely; because I want people to care about me; [...]

even negative attention is attention - you mentioned before your relationship with your parents isn't very good. maybe underneath it all you feel that if you lived up to everything they expect of you, you would lose any attention you get from them? that maybe if you were to start feeling better, you'd lose the attention too?

you want to be loved and cared for, we all do. there is nothing wrong with that. but remaining depressed isn't going to make you feel loved. by definition, depression makes us feel very unloved, even though people do love us. so to feel loved, you have to work at feeling better, at getting well again.

Because I want the punishment that I deserve - other people are miserable, so I should be as well;

your logic doesn't hold. why would a person's being miserable mean YOU have to be miserable too? it just doesn't make any sense.

and I don't really seem to care how others are feeling, and won't try to help them

depression makes us stop caring about a lot of things. it's part of the disease. you need to help yourself first before you are able to help others.

and sometimes can't do anything to help them

that doesn't make you a bad person if you don't have the means to help.

and no one would want me to help them even if I could and wanted to

are you absolutely certain of this? is this really true for every single person you know out there?

because there's always heaps of other people who would do a better job;

that doesn't mean your job would be a lousy job; your help would still be useful. any help is better than none.

because the world is full of crap and bad things happen to everyone and I don't care, and therefore I am insensitive, selfish and should therefore be punished;

i think this is emotional thinking happening here. depression makes us focus on ourselves, and it's very difficult to think of others. not that that's an excuse or that it means you don't have to try.

other people are punished or reprimanded for their wrong behaviours (by others or by themselves) yet I experience neither to an appropriate extent;

i sometimes do things i'm not proud of, but i don't punish myself. what i'll experience is regret, wishing i hadn't done it, and this in turn motivates me to do better next time when a similar situation comes along.

because the only time I seem to care about someone is if they mean something to me and if I stand to lose something from their suffering; because I DO care about all of that, yet don't do anything about it!

then get going and do something, anything, however small a gesture it may be.

I am an undeniably horrible person who deserves continual suffering, to be isolated from everyone with no chance to complain...

no one deserves continual suffering.

I'm pretty sure about the solution though.

so am i, and it's not what you've got in mind. the solution is to be honest with yourself and your therapist, and get to work on getting out of this depression you're suffering from.

 

[ThatLady]

Are you lonely, Gooblax? Do you find yourself without friends with whom to spend time doing things that are fun? Getting attention through negative means works in a way, but it's a never-ending cycle because the attention you get has no real quality, so you're always searching for more. It's a vicious circle.

You say that everybody is miserable. Sorry, but that's just not true, Gooblax. I'm not miserable. I'm a happy, healthy, friendly, productive person. I enjoy life and living it. You can, too, but you have to put out the effort. Sitting around saying "I can't get better because I won't do anything to help myself" is a self-defeating statement and, in your case, you're making it a truth. You can get better, but it's going to take effort. Complaining isn't going to do it. Get up, get out, and do something. The onus is on you, Gooblax.

 

[gooblax]

I don’t really care about my relationship with my parents. They can do what they want and as long as it doesn’t affect me, I’m fine with it. (I acknowledge that from their perspective, it may not be as they would like, but as we all know by now, I’m selfish so don’t care all that much.) I don’t like the kind of attention that I’m getting from them now, and would rather that they had no idea about how I was feeling, so they wouldn’t irritate me about it. I don’t want attention from any of my friends, and certainly don’t seek it from them. I’d rather avoid most people and not speak to people, but I swear it’s impossible to find a place where I’m alone at school.

The only attention that I would say that I was after was attention from a guy I used to like (back when I used to speak to him, that is), or now from strangers on the internet.

Yes, I’m lonely, but I only feel that way after loosing a person who I want to speak to. I don’t have any desire to spend time with my friends outside school (maybe because they don’t “get” me, or understand what I’m trying to say to them, or share my interests… presuming that I have things to say.) Normally I don’t notice being lonely, except when I have no one to complain to.

In fairness, no person should have to suffer greater than another. Evidently, life is not fair - theoretical probability does not hold, theoretical morals do not hold, law is arbitrary, and rules are not absolute. But some sort of balance is usually maintained, so if others are miserable, it is only a matter of time before an individual themselves becomes miserable. If one somehow has previously been able to avoid misery, then it will come to them. It is now my turn to make up for all the time that I have not been miserable. That makes perfect sense to me.

I believe that my ‘regret initiator’ is broken, because it doesn’t work to the extent that it should: not enough to motivate change or to make me learn from the mistake/wrongdoing.

Now that that particular mood has passed, I can see that my complete unwillingness to try to help myself is temporary. I’m still lazy, but sometimes I am slightly motivated to change myself. I guess that “sometimes” and “slightly” is better than not at all.

Thanks ladybug and ThatLady. I really do appreciate your help. It’s a shame that I couldn’t have been a better person when I met everyone here.