Why do I do this to myself?

[gooblax]

I thought this might fit into this category... Sorry if it doesn't.

At times, I seem to deliberately insult myself. I repeat these insults to myself, and notice what makes me feel worse. Then I keep doing that. I've written insulting messages on paper, sent them to myself by email or pm... Sometimes I even ask others to insult me, usually suggesting it in a joking manner (they don't, though).

It really appears that I want to make myself miserable - I don't really try to stop. When I have tried to think 'I'd never say this to anyone else, so I don't deserve it either,' or replace the insults with compliments or even with something neutral, I just build up all the insults and associated feelings until next time.

This only occurs sometimes. Other times... it varies. It's worse when I'm tired.
It usually only lasts for a few minutes, and an hour afterwards I've (usually, if I have a distraction) forgotten. But during those few minutes... it's certainly not doing me any good.

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions/answers...
Thanks.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

There may be several reasons for this but in general I have noticed in your posts here that you are very self-critical, very quick to put yourself down, very quick to take offense, and very quick to dismiss yourself and your problems as trivial and not worthy of anyone's attention.

I wonder where this comes from. Are these messages someone else has conveyed to you in the past in some way? That you are a bother or a burden to others? Or that you demand too much attention, that you are too needy? From a friend or family member perhaps, or from peers at school? Are you often ignored or left out of things among your peers? I suspect that exploring these questions may give you some clues.

See also Becoming Thick Skinned.

 

[gooblax]

Thanks Dr. Baxter.

"The world doesn't revolve around you."
I hear that from my parents on almost a weekly basis. The reason being that I am selfish - I don't help with things, don't do dishes, don't cook meals etc. I feel no desire to help with those things, and usually decide that I have schoolwork to be doing instead (but don't often end up doing that, now). I don't seem to be capable of sympathy, to my knowledge. Or if I do, I don't recognise it well. I don't feel as if I care about others, despite realising that I should. I feel guilty for not sympathising, but that's as close as I seem to get. And I suppose that's one thing that brings on the self-criticism - I'm selfish.

However, I do try to keep in mind that things are "not all about" me - nothing ever is. When it comes to other people's decisions, anything to do with me is not a factor, and quite rightly shouldn't be. If someone does something I find inconciderate, it's not because they "don't like me" or whatever, it's because my existence does not matter to them in the slightest, making them one less person that I have to think about when I finally get the courage to do away with myself. Of course my "problems" are trivial - it shouldn't matter to anyone else that some sniveling, self-centred snob is feeling sad (or exaggerating that they feel sad, and pathetically seeking sympathy for something that isn't even a problem) because they hate themselves (or are fabricating the whole self-hatred thing) but are too conceited to change anything.

Anyway, to answer your questions... (presuming you actually wanted answers... If you were just asking to get rid of me, then by all means don't bother to read another word.) The main thing I can think of is how at school 2 years ago, the group of friends I was with all spoke English as a second language, so would have most of their conversations in Chinese. Since I couldn't understand a word they were saying, I asked them to speak in English a couple of times, but they hardly bothered to do so. I gradually learnt to sit there and amuse myself, doing nothing a lot of the time. It's not like I would have had anything worthwhile saying anyway. Even when I could understand them, I barely said anything. The group I was with before that would talk about things I wasn't interested in, so I had nothing to say before that anyway. Anyway, that lasted about half a year, until another person who couldn't speak Chinese came and would speak to them in English, so they made the effort for her - or she made them, whatever. Half of them have left school, so my friends always speak English now, while I still sit around saying nothing. I respond when asked a question, sometimes add in a side-comment or two, but I wouldn't call that "conversation." I don't think of things that I'd like to say, and feel no need or desire to make myself think of anything. I don't know what people talk about other than clothes/shopping, movies, tv, other people, school and things they've done, and most of the time I haven't seen the show/movie (and wouldn't know what to say about it anyway), I don't like or care about shopping, I never do anything interesting, don't enjoy talking about other people who are not present in the conversation, and people don't believe me if I say that I've been screwing up everything to do with school.

The side-comments that I do make, often seem to annoy people - I relate things that they've said to schoolwork.
(eg. the conversation previously: "Is taro the only purple vegetable?... Red cabbage is purple..."
me: "and can be used as an indicator for acids."
the result: groans, water splashed in my face [since I'd made other science comments earlier])

Apparently, moping around, looking tired and not saying much is "attention seeking." I've worked out that the best way to go about things is to pretend to be 'normal' but stay quiet, gradually cut things off but not too noticeably... and eventually no one will remember me. Then I can put an end to it.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I hear that from my parents on almost a weekly basis. The reason being that I am selfish - I don't help with things, don't do dishes, don't cook meals etc. I feel no desire to help with those things, and usually decide that I have schoolwork to be doing instead (but don't often end up doing that, now). I don't seem to be capable of sympathy, to my knowledge. Or if I do, I don't recognise it well. I don't feel as if I care about others, despite realising that I should. I feel guilty for not sympathising, but that's as close as I seem to get. And I suppose that's one thing that brings on the self-criticism - I'm selfish.

That description would probably be applied to a lot of young people in your age range. Things like planning, empathy, inhibition, etc. - the so-called executive functions - are the province of the frontal lobes which are still very much continuing to develop through adolescence and into the 20s.

(presuming you actually wanted answers... If you were just asking to get rid of me, then by all means don't bother to read another word.)

There's that self-criticism and hypersensitivity to rejection again.

Apparently, moping around, looking tired and not saying much is "attention seeking." I've worked out that the best way to go about things is to pretend to be 'normal' but stay quiet, gradually cut things off but not too noticeably... and eventually no one will remember me. Then I can put an end to it.

And all that will have accomplished what exactly?

 

[gooblax]

That description would probably be applied to a lot of young people in your age range. Things like planning, empathy, inhibition, etc. - the so-called executive functions - are the province of the frontal lobes which are still very much continuing to develop through adolescence and into the 20s.

Someone says they hurt themselves - oh. Someone says they are feeling upset - oh. I see someone crying - oh. Someone says they were recently physically assaulted - oh. Someone says their mother was just diagnosed with brain cancer - oh. Someone says their cousin just died - oh. That kind of reaction is just not acceptable! After watching a video about malnourished children in Africa, one student had to go home because they were crying too much. Another was feeling sick. I never saw the video, but I can sure guess my reaction - oh.

There's that self-criticism and hypersensitivity to rejection again.

It's quite possible that you didn't want an answer, though.

And all that will have accomplished what exactly?

I won't have to be concerned that I don't feel concerned about the effect of my suicide on others, because they won't even consider it.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

You have barely begun to live your life and you are thinking about ending it. That doesn't tell you that you need to be in some form of treatment for this?

 

[gooblax]

Thinking, yes. Going to do so - not likely. I'm a coward. I allow set dates to pass with barely a reproach. Inaction and procrastination.

I've recently started therapy, but the therapist is interested in relationships, family history, and weird concepts that I've never thought about. I don't feel like she's interested in any of this kind of thing. Next session (although I've been saying this for a while) I'm going to make a list of stuff and just hand it to her. If she won't address that, then too bad for her. She knows that I've had suicidal thoughts, but didn't ask for specifics, so I didn't provide them.

Thanks Dr. B.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

That sounds like a good plan. If this therapist isn't helping, there are others who can. It does sometimes take a bit of trial and error, just as it does with medications, to find the right match.

 

[ThatLady]

I won't have to be concerned that I don't feel concerned about the effect of my suicide on others, because they won't even consider it.

Gooblax, this statement stood out for me. It's in direct conflict with what you have said about yourself, whether you recognize it, or not. You presented yourself as someone with no feeling for others; yet, in this one sentence you absolutely prove that not to be the case. If it were, you wouldn't have a care what effect your actions had on someone else. You do care, Gooblax. You're not the hopeless, selfish monster you portray yourself to be.

 

[gooblax]

Gooblax, this statement stood out for me. It's in direct conflict with what you have said about yourself, whether you recognize it, or not. You presented yourself as someone with no feeling for others; yet, in this one sentence you absolutely prove that not to be the case. If it were, you wouldn't have a care what effect your actions had on someone else. You do care, Gooblax. You're not the hopeless, selfish monster you portray yourself to be.

Thanks ThatLady, but I still see it as "caring that I don't care." I know I should care about the feelings of people who care about me, therefore I modify my actions to suit.

Although I do care that my course of action may require (I'm not entrily sure of the legalities) my family to pay a substantial amount of money (that they cannot afford) in compensation to the affected organisation/s. I'm not going to make them pay for that.

Anyway, thanks to you both.

 

[Into The Light]

Although I do care that my course of action may require (I'm not entrily sure of the legalities) my family to pay a substantial amount of money (that they cannot afford) in compensation to the affected organisation/s. I'm not going to make them pay for that.

i don't understand this statement here. what do you mean by this?

you're not an evil, selfish, horrible monster. you're a teenager who very likely is suffering from depression. when depressed, all we end up doing is thinking about ourselves and about being depressed. nothing else is of interest. this can come across as selfishness to others, but it's not. it's just that we're stuck inside our heads and there is no room for much else.

i've been there too, been ignored when i tried to say something in the group, the people that were supposedly my friends. it doesn't help much.

your parents may also not realize that you are depressed when they make statements that you are selfish. it's hard to read teenagers and to know what is normal teenage behaviour and what is not.

you're suffering. when we contemplate suicide this means we're in pain. talk to your therapist about what's going on, because you are in pain. if you don't feel like she can help address things, you may need to talk to someone else. do this. you're worth it. therapy is there to help you heal.

 

[gooblax]

<triggering details removed>

Pseudo depression, pseudo sufferring, pseudo pain, real selfishness. That's the only explanation I can see. How else do you explain a mood that changes almost hourly to one of: neutral, angry, happy, 'empty,' irritable, stressed, sad, calm, jumpy, or a strange 'get-me-out-of-here' feeling? (Rhetorical question, by the way. But it took a while for me to identify that... and of course the pattern will change now that I think I've identified it.) Anything else - I'm sorry, I've probably managed to fool you somehow. I think I must just be after the attention. That's a thought confirmed by my mother, anyway. That, and the selfishness, for which I deserve to be in pain, if that's what it is.

Anyway, I'm sorry. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Into The Light]

How else do you explain a mood that changes almost hourly to one of: neutral, angry, happy, 'empty,' irritable, stressed, sad, calm, jumpy, or a strange 'get-me-out-of-here' feeling?

gooblax, that sounds like depression to me. i recognize the feelings you describe. i hated it. i am sure you hate it too. i am well now and what a world of difference.

if you aren't expressing to your therapist what's really happening inside then it's hard for him/her to help you.

as for this being just all about attention, so what if it is? the way i see it, if someone is asking for attention they need attention. to be honest, i think you're right in asking for it. you need attention from the adults around you that you are not okay, and you need help to be okay again. talk to them. have a heart to heart. tell them how hard things really are and let them help you.

 

[gooblax]

Thanks ladybug.

And sorry Dr Baxter - I tried to keep the explanation minimalistic. Looks like I failed. I won't be posting anything of that nature on the forum again. In fact, if I can prevent myself, I won't be posting anything at all on the forum again.

Bye everyone, and thanks for the help.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Thanks ladybug.

And sorry Dr Baxter - I tried to keep the explanation minimalistic. Looks like I failed. I won't be posting anything of that nature on the forum again. In fact, if I can prevent myself, I won't be posting anything at all on the forum again.

Bye everyone, and thanks for the help.

There's no need to leave, gooblax. We do ask that our forum members try to be aware of potential triggers but that's also why we have admins and moderators - to monitor such potential triggers.

 

[gooblax]

I can't even follow a simple set of rules.
And if I don't have any sort of problem, and am just going to go around planting landmines, then I have no business here.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

gooblax, once again you are taking things way too personally. The moderators and admins at Psychlinks routinely monitor posts for triggers and edit them as I just did with yours. You are certainly not the only one.

Honestly, I urge you to try to find a copy of David Burn's Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy or The Feeling Good Handbook. This will help you with things like overpersonalization and hypersensitivity.

 

[gooblax]

In no way do I believe it was a personal thing - it was completely justifiable, and I'm aware that it is common practice. I am simply ashamed by the mistake (especially when I was consciously attempting to keep the description within limits). That puts into question my skills as a writer, and as my own personal moderator (which I've failed at being an iimmeasurable number of times in the past 2 years). I do not wish for a similar thing to occur in the future, but, knowing me, I'll screw things up a thousand times before really learning a lesson. It is, however, my responsibility to ensure that I do not make such mistakes, and there's only one sure way to ensure that.

But anyway, I'll see if I can find the book. Thanks.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

knowing me, I'll screw things up a thousand times before really learning a lesson

I believe that's called "being human". We all do it.

 

[Into The Light]

i hope you don't leave us, gooblax. you seem like a nice person who could use a little support. we're here for you any time.