• Quote of the Day
    "Worrying is like a rocking chair: It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere."
    Van Wilder, posted by Daniel

gooblax

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I know I said I wasn't going to post for a month, but I'll beat myself up about that later. I thought I should ask about this:

My thoughts about suicide are the most convincing when they occur while I'm feeling calm and rational. Sure, they're stronger when I'm more emotionally caught-up in things, but it's when I'm calm that I just think "yes, I'm going to do that." That's when I try to plan it, but there are too many holes in the plan (the biggest one being my cowardice - so I have to plan to remove that as well). That aside (as I am a coward and it is therefore not relevant), why would the thoughts be more compelling when I'm not feeling particularly miserable at all? Considering that if I were to examine the basis for such thoughts (whilst in that/this mood) I would not be willing to explore further than "it is what should be done," one would think that that would be able to partially discount the rationality of the thoughts. But I dunno, it just seems to form an indisputable barrier, convinced of it's own rationality.
 

Mari

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convinced of it's own rationality.

It makes perfect sense but also makes me think of the time we were in the eye of a hurricane. Everything was so peaceful and calm but with a strange eerieness and forboding of what was still to come. We made preparation for the second wave of the storm and when it had passed we were so happy that we had made it safely through. I like what ThatLady posted.
We have to go on when we don't think we can. We have to keep trying when it seems the mountain is too high to climb. We have to force ourselves to honor ourselves and to begin to insist that others honor us, as well. That's the hard part, and it doesn't come easily; nor, does it come quickly. It takes concerted effort over time.
:heart: Mari
 

Daniel

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My thoughts about suicide are the most convincing when they occur while I'm feeling calm and rational...

The cognitive distortions of suicidal thinking can be very convincing because, as with psychosis, there is usually a lack of insight. If you were truly thinking rationally, you would be able to label the various types of cognitive distortions that are contributing to the suicidal thoughts, such as all-or-nothing thinking.

But I dunno, it just seems to form an indisputable barrier, convinced of it's own rationality.

Exactly:

The logic of suicide is, then, not rational...It is like the unanswerable logic of a nightmare, or like the science-fiction fantasy of being projected suddenly into another dimension: everything makes sense and follows its own strict rules; yet, at the same time, everything is also different, perverted, upside-down. Once a man decides to take his own life he enters a shut-off, impregnable but wholly convincing world where every detail fits and each incident reinforces his decision. An argument with a stranger in a bar, an expected letter which doesn't arrive, the wrong voice on the telephone, the wrong knock at the door, even a change in the weather -- all seem charged with special meaning; they all contribute.

The Savage God: A Study of Suicide - Google Book Search

Such constriction of focus in suicidal thinking is more commonly referred to as "tunnel vision" and, less commonly, as the "suicidal trance."
 
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HBShadow

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Hello -

I was wondering if people can ever be completely "cured" of suicidal urges. Suicidal people seem to have these same urges over many years and I wonder if they just go dormant with therapy and medication, but given the right set of circumstances they are always lying there to resurface - sort of like part of your genetic makeup that will forever be a part of you. If you are predisposed to suicidal thoughts, can you ever fully recover?

Thank you,
HBShadow

PS This is a great forum with a wealth of information for its members!
 
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great question hbshadow. i suspect given the "right" set of circumstances we would revert back to that state. however, once a person has been there and has gotten out of that state it is a good idea to look at what factors led them to becoming suicidal, and then to look at how they can prevent the same set or a similar set of circumstances from happening again.

my therapist showed me how everything lined up for me to end up in a suicidal crisis state, and that by identifying that certain set of "steps" we can now be on the watch for them. should any of those steps in that direction occur i can take corrective action. knowing all the factors that contributed to what happened to me, i feel fairly confident that i'll be okay and that things will never be that bad for me again that i end up back in that danger zone.
 

HBShadow

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When people indicate they are feeling suicidal, the recommended response is always to:

a) have their doctor adjust their medication, and

b) let their therapist know they are having more difficulty than usual/ask for an extra appointment.

I understand the first response in that changes to medication start happening immediately (the positive effects thereof may not be "felt" immediately, but the drugs do start acting internally immediately). But if a person is already in therapy, I do not know how contacting their therapist provides any added benefit...therapy is a gradual process. Letting a therapist know you are struggling more than normal does not resolve the problems making a person suicidal - it does not speed up the process of resolving those problems. Is it just for the "venting" factor that people recommend contacting the therapist? Or perhaps the purpose of that response is just so the therapist can make sure the person is physically safe (in which case then, it stands to reason if a person is physically safe, there would be no benefit in contacting the therapist)? Just curious about the logic behind this. Thanks for any comments you might have.
 

Retired

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Shadow,
People who might be suicidal are likely to give off signals or clues about their suicidal thoughts. Unfortunately many people find it difficult to follow up on these signals and fail to engage the suicidal person in a conversation about their thoughts. If left alone without intervention, a person with suicidal thoughts has a greater liklihood of carrying out the plan.

It is generally not recommended for an untrained person to do more than provide immediate support to keep the suicidal person safe, and to do everything possible to get in contact with a trained mental health professional to come to the aid of the that person. The best we can do is suicide first aid, which is to let the person know they are not alone, keep the person safe by removing any immediate threat of the plan being completed, and get the person to professional help such as the family doctor, the person's therapist, the local emergency department or if the person is in imminent danger of completing their plan, to call 911.

The local crisis line can also be a helpful resource if all the other resources are not immediately available.

Medication change may or may not be the answer, until the issues and the reason for the suicidal thoughts are understood; but the most immediate intrervention is to keep the person safe and to get them to a trained health professional.
 
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It is allowing your doctor to know where your mind set is and if he or she may need to bring you in earlier for an appointment or maybe ask you to go to hospital for help I think calling your therapist is just allowing them to help you if they can more quickly and to give you some coping skills until the suicidal thoughts leave if you are in crisis.
 

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